a must watch truly amazing

youtu.be/VPSm9gJkPxU?si=h9j_78SHUUNDpZez

An excellent video, aside from the "conclusion". Specifically, critical thinking is absolutely not "I can't figure out how this could happen without God, so I guess God did it." Truly annoying. Critical thinking in the context of the video is trying to figure out how natural processes could have made such an engine, and if you can't figure it out, admitting that you don't know. But that's way, way, way too hard for too many people to do -- either putting in the immense amount of work necessary to figure it out, or to have the humility to admit that they are not smart enough to have figured it out on their own.

And, yeah, there are tons of things that even the smartest people in the world have been working on for decades and still can't figure out. Doesn't mean "God did it" -- it means it will take even more smart people even longer to figure it out, or that maybe it's so difficult that it's beyond human capacity to understand. There are plenty of magicians that perform "magic" tricks that I would never figure out on my own, or even with a lot of help -- doesn't mean it's magic.

That is true but equally true is that "God might have done it".

showed my daughter today. it was amazing discussing it with her as she studied bio at uni. to much for my brain to handle. did you watch the part 2 of the vid it goes for 2.5 hours and a lot more depth. i havnt seen it yet.

That's a common logical fallacy. That's like saying it's also equally true that aliens did it. If you don't understand how something happened, in no way, shape, or form does it mean "God did it". It simply means that you don't understand how something happened. You can either try harder to figure it out (with no guarantee that you'll ever understand or that it's even possible for you to understand) or just say, "Cool! But I don't see how that happened." Like I said, saying "God did it" as an "explanation", is simply your refusal to acknowledge that you don't know.

I haven't. I may check it out -- I watch a lot of stuff like that on you tube (generally math, physics, and astronomy, though), and I've seen a couple of his vids before, which I have liked, as I did this one (just not to keen on his "conclusion").

im amazed at he level of intelligence of people that study the sciences, when my daughter was in her first year she worked for biosecurity extracting DNA from fruit flys and matching to tomato's. my brain is good but not to the level of hers , im a practical person and need physical images not imaginary to understand things. i studied electronics for a while and could fix anything and build radios ,but could never truly grasp the science behind the basic principles of electricity.

It's a fallacy only if God does not exist.

I am convinced He does exist but many are convinced He doesn’t.

I am not convinced aliens exist.

Yes, indeed, nature is incredible. This is a fantastic example of a rotating electric motor.

Rotating Pumps exist in other places inside cells too.

Here’s an example.
In your body you have roughly 5 trillion cells that can each contain up to 2000 Mitochondria.
The mitochondria are the cells’ power houses and employ an “electrical/chemical/mechanical” process using oxygen to produce ATP; our universal energy source.
Inside these mitochondria there are many many rotating pumps that are driven by a flow of protons across a membrane. The proton gradient makes up a high electric field of about 30kV/m and makes the pump process possible, its sometimes poetically called the “spark of life”

When I learned all about this at uni many many years ago we (only) had diagrams and equations showing it step by step. It was fascinating stuff. But today, the animated videos you can find on Youtube take your level of understanding up to a new level 😊

Here’s that process of ATP synthesis, (jump to 1:08 to see the rotating pump in action) the video then continues on to show how the vital proton gradient is maintained.
Electron transport chain (youtube.com)

It's a fallacy either way unless you have objective evidence that "God did it".

Our beliefs don't figure in to it -- it's what we can objectively demonstrate. I mean, what we consider "reality" might simply be a computer program in which we're merely AI NPCs, and the universe that the computer running our universe program in might be a computer program in another "universe", ad infinitum. But there's no objective evidence that this is the case. So, while fun to speculate and great fodder for movies, it isn't "reasoning" -- it's "I believe in this fantasy, which might be true, but no more so than it might be true that Santa and the Easter Bunny are real".

A debatable point...? 😆

That makes no sense as an argument because it is also true to say it's not a fallacy unless you have objective evidence that God did not do it.

Fortunately you don't get to decide for me or everyone else how our beliefs influence our views.

If you believe God does not exist that is fine and I have no issue with that but if you want people to not be influenced by their beliefs then I need to see some proof that God cannot possibly exist.

Can you post any?

It depends on what you call "objective evidence", I suppose. I mean, let's take science as a whole. The "devout believer" may say, "But where did those physical laws come from? You don't know, so they came from God. Thus, God did it." But then we can ask where God came from and they'll retort, "God has always been." So why can't the physical laws have always been, and save the unnecessary step of invoking an uprovable God? This has played out in the past:

physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/2013/02/galileos-invisible-mountain-joke.html

I have recently been reading (White, 2007) about what happened when Galileo turned his telescope towards the Moon and reported mountains there. This upset people at the time since Aristotle had stated that the Moon was a perfect sphere. Christopher Clavius defended Aristotle saying that the Moon was surrounded by a "crystalline invisible layer" so it was still a perfect sphere.

Galileo's brilliant response was: "If anyone is allowed to imagine whatever he pleases, then someone could say that the Moon is surrounded by a substance that is invisible, provided that I can say that the crystal has on its outer surface some mountains that are 30 times higher than the terrestrial ones, and also invisible."

In other words, saying "God did it" is, at best, a substitute for "I don't know how it works, but I don't want to admit it".

The existence or non-existence of a God cannot be proved or disproved. However, the existence of any particular characterization of a God can be disproved. That said, this is not what I am debating. What I am saying is that "God did it" does not explain anything -- it is a place holder for "I don't know how it works" for people who are unwilling to admit not knowing and either leaving it at that or making an effort to figure it out (with no guarantees that they, or anyone else, can figure it out).

Just because someone cannot explain something does not prove God could not have been involved in that thing.

Buddha didn't say God doesn't exist. He said, until your mind is capable of comprehending the Absolute, it is a waste of time considering it.

That's fine but I disagree it's a waste of time.

Yes, but that's your middle name...

Is that really the best you can do to try to get under danhasleftforum's skin 😀 ?

I'm sure you can do much better if you put some oomph into it.

What else have you got ? 😉

Again, true. However, saying "God did it" without being able to objectively demonstrate that God did it (which would require objectively demonstrating that God exists, which is not possible) is simply a place holder for "I don't know, but it's comforting for me to say 'God did it', because it strengthens/'confirms' my faith in the God that I believe".

So, to recap: anything and everything may be a direct result of God. But the existence of God cannot be proven, so saying "God did it" is no more or less meaningful than saying "Aliens did it", "Santa did it", or "The Easter Bunny did it".