• AlanShlens
    10 months ago

    Just for a laugh, I thought I'd compare the film simulations from my X100VI with that produced from Capture One and Adobe Photoshop (ACR).

    So, I set up a small table with some natural light and placed various coloured articles on it. Then, for each colour simulation in the camera, I took one picture (Raw and JPG) setting the aperture at F8 and letting the camera deal with the rest. I then copied the files to my PC and, for each RAW file, I set it to the same simulation as the JPG and wrote out a new JPG file. I did this in Capture One and Photoshop. Photoshop didn't have all the simulations, so for some, it was just C1 against in-camera JPG.

    The results were not quite what I expected. Photoshop had a closer match to the in-camera JPGs than Capture One. There isn't much in it, but it is noticeable.

    Anyway, here are the pictures. Have a look yourself and see what you think. I've resized them but if you want to see the full size or raw ones, they can all be found here 1drv.ms/f/s!AiCLdrrfkdGRrX1EnWL2QccJThtd?e=liTzKR - some comparisons are below.

    Provia Std ((no 45)
    JPG from camera
    C6CF0045_(Superlarge).JPG

    Capture One
    C6CF0045-c1-05_(Superlarge).jpg

    Photoshop
    C6CF0045 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    Velvia (no 46)
    JPG from camera
    C6CF0046_(Superlarge).JPG

    Capture One
    C6CF0046-c1-06_(Superlarge).jpg

    Photoshop
    C6CF0046 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    Astia (No 47)
    JPG from camera
    C6CF0047_(Superlarge).JPG

    Capture One
    C6CF0047-c1-07_(Superlarge).jpg

    Photoshop
    C6CF0047 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    Classic Chrome (No 48)
    JPG from camera
    C6CF0048_(Superlarge).JPG

    Capture One
    C6CF0048-c1-08_(Superlarge).jpg

    Photoshop
    C6CF0048 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    Reala Ace (No 49)
    JPG from camera
    C6CF0049_(Superlarge).JPG

    Capture One
    C6CF0049-c1-09_(Superlarge).jpg

    Photoshop
    C6CF0049 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    I think you get the idea. I haven't uploaded the rest here - you can find them in the Dropbox link above.

    50 is Pro-Neg Hi
    51 is Pro-Neg Std
    52 is Classic Neg
    53 is Nostalgic Neg
    54 is Eterna
    55 is Eternal Bleach Bypass.

    C6CF0049 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.1 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0049-c1-09_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.0 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0049_(Superlarge).JPG

    JPG, 1.1 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0048 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.1 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0048-c1-08_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.0 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0048_(Superlarge).JPG

    JPG, 1.1 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0047 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.1 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0047-c1-07_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.0 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0047_(Superlarge).JPG

    JPG, 1.2 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0046 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.1 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0046-c1-06_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.0 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0046_(Superlarge).JPG

    JPG, 1.2 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0045 copy_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 1.0 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0045-c1-05_(Superlarge).jpg

    JPG, 993.5 KB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

    C6CF0045_(Superlarge).JPG

    JPG, 1.1 MB, uploaded by AlanSh 10 months ago.

  • Maobylens
    1582 posts
    10 months ago

    Nice, Out of curiosity
    Do you get the same results with the X-T5?

  • AlanShlens
    10 months ago

    I haven't tested that. I'll give it a go tomorrow.

    Alan

  • DonaldBpanorama_fish_eye
    2359 posts
    10 months ago

    how do you get ACR to reconize the incamera jpeg settings ?

  • DeletedRemoved user
    10 months ago

    Looked at the first three (above) in the GIMP ... each to a separate layer, then set the layer mode to 'Difference' ...

    ... not much difference between JPG and Capture One,

    ... big difference between JPG and Photoshop for the cyan box also the green package, not quite what you said,

    ... (I downloaded the post views to compare).

  • AlanShlens
    10 months ago

    I don't - I use RAW files in ACR and apply the camera profiles that ACR supplies.

    Alan

  • AlanShlens
    10 months ago

    Dropbox have told me that my activity is too high and have frozen any downloads. So, I'm moving all the files to OneDrive and you can use this link

    1drv.ms/f/s!AiCLdrrfkdGRrX1EnWL2QccJThtd?e=liTzKR

    to copy the pictures if you want to play yourself. I'll update the first post as well.

    Alan

  • DeletedRemoved user
    10 months ago

    My computer is Adobe-free, Alan.

    I saw an out-of-camera JPEG, a Photoshop output and a Capture One output in your post.

    The JPEG and Photoshop outputs in the post views are surprisingly different. The Capture One not so.

    I'll download the full size Provia Std (no 45) JPEG and Photoshop outputs from this site and compare again.

  • DeletedRemoved user
    10 months ago

    Here we go. Bear in mind that, unlike subtraction, an absolute difference can change colors as can be seen below:

    Provia PS JPEG difference.jpg

    When I do the same comparison between Capture One and the JPEG I get an almost black result indicating very little difference, which therefore remains the opposite of what you said, at least for those three posted images.

    Provia PS JPEG difference.jpg

    JPG, 2.5 MB, uploaded by xpatUSA 10 months ago.

  • DeletedRemoved user
    10 months ago

    I also downloaded the same files from One Drive and got the same result.

    Is there some reason why C6CF0045 copy.jpg has an Apple profile, unlike the other two?

    Still, I converted it to sRGB but the result was just the same ...

  • DeletedRemoved user
    10 months ago

    Just did the Velvia examples.

    PS vs JPEG:

    velvia ps diff.jpg

    C1 vs JPEG.

    velvia c1 diff.jpg

    It would be interesting to know why Alan finds opposite to myself ...

    velvia c1 diff.jpg

    JPG, 56.2 KB, uploaded by xpatUSA 10 months ago.

    velvia ps diff.jpg

    JPG, 74.7 KB, uploaded by xpatUSA 10 months ago.

  • AlanShlens
    10 months ago

    How interesting. It must be my monitor. I will try and calibrate it again and see what I then get.

    Alan

  • AlanShlens
    10 months ago

    I've looked on three monitors and it's the carpet. It looks darker with the C1 simulation.

    I also need to see what else I may have forgotten to check, like the Apple profile.

    Alan

  • AlanShlens
    10 months ago

    I am confused. In Photoshop ACR, I opened the raw file and assigned the Provia Camera profile. then opened it in PS itself. Go to Edit -> Profile and it shows the RGB profile as "Display P3". When I change it to SRGB IEC... , the image on the screen seems to be made a but duller.

    So, what is "Display P3"?

    Alan

  • ArvoJlens
    10 months ago

    Camera profiles (like Provia) and color spaces/profiles (like Display P3) are in now way related. Also you never should assign some color profile to image, unless you know exactly, what you are doing. You can convert them though.

    Display P3 (DCI-P3, wikipedia) is just one possible RGB color space (like sRGB, Adobe RGB, Rec709 etc). You don't need to think about it - every color managed program (all nowadays image processing software, including Adobe, C1, DXO, Corel etc; Chromium based browsers; properly configured Firefox) should display and use it properly. Windows itself and its default photo viewers likely are not color managed.
    If you have calibrated monitor, then you have to look in your software options, is that profile used. Adobe maybe even does not tell you - I have no way to check :)

  • DeletedRemoved user
    10 months ago

    Yes, for Velvia in the GIMP luminance histogram (mean value), the carpet on the left is:

    JPEG: 0.495; C1: 0.404; PS 0.498.

    C1 is definitely darker ... in 8-bit terms: JPEG: 126/255; C1: 103/255

    Meaning that PS is indeed "better" in that regard as opposed to my C1 is "better" in terms of RGB channel values.

    [edit] I imagine that film simulation is based on Color Look Up Tables (CLUTs). So it should come as no surprise that different apps would produce different images from the same raw data, all else being equal. And, all else not being equal, it would be no surprise that different apps produce different non-filmic RGB images from the same raw data ... all a bit of a crap-shoot, eh? [/edit]