Critiques

I would like to see a critique forum considered among the other forums of DPRevived. I have found it very helpful to have feedback on my photography. In fact I rarely post anything in general presentation forums because feedback will be lacking or of minimal value.

I realize a critique forum is likely to have a limited number of participants. There are a couple of obvious reasons. First a high percentage of people are happy with "likes" but really do not want any sort of suggestions, comments or ideas from improvement and certainly not any sort of criticism. A second issue is that much of the feedback is not going to be of value just due to the poorly thought out comments from people who have little to contribute.

In spite of the limitations, I have found critiques to be of value overall. For a number of years I have participated in the Fred Miranda Photo Critique forum. Overall participation in the FM forums seems to be dwindling to a very low level and the PC forum is no exception.

Unbeknownst to many members, there has been a weekly critique thread for all camera brands/types hidden away on the Oly SLR forum. It has opened a new thread every Wednesday for 15 years. We will open its new edition here, this Wednesday, in Oly SLR section. We'd welcome you to take part and help us figure out how best to adapt this activity to this new forum home. We believe all photographers can benefit from both receiving and providing quality feedback on the images we care about. We have had a conversation with admins about the possibility of a freestanding forum section but our regular participants will expect to find us in a familiar place so the old Oly SLR section is where we will inaugurate the Wednesday Critique Thread, keeping the hope for a freestanding section for later, once we figure out how best to adapt.

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There are always some comments that are barely helpful (and ever so often some that require moderation), but several of the regular members are experienced with critique (some of us who lead the weekly thread have done this for many years and on multiple forums) so all submissions will get at least some quality critiques. Part of the goal of such an activity, regardless of its housing, is to educate participants in how to study images from the standpoint of photographic as well as artistic merit, and how to best present this. Learning how to study and provide quality feedback on other people's images helps us become more self-evaluative and better photographers in the long run.

We aren't even pushing to get you to set it up now, we just want to keep the door open as Mike Fewster said in his earlier post, while we learn the new site and adapt to the formatting, but we do have an ambition to bring this to a more general forum population than we are likely to have tucked away in the old Oly section.

I think that's a fine intro, but would want to get the other thread moderators involved to see their take on it.

As always, thank you Alan (and Bob) for listening to us here. It is a very refreshing approach to admin work.

Sounds good. Perhaps the last sentence is not needed. Those who are inconsiderate are likely to remain that way. I have found the problem with critiques is the opposite. Most contributors are afraid to make any sort of negative comments. A bunch of likes is just not useful. Anyone who participates in a critique forum or for that matter any internet forum will sometimes need a thick skin.

One issue that comes up is reworks of the original presentation. You might want to include a warning to be specific if the OP do not want to see their image modified in any manner.

You will probably want to develop a policy about whether or not it is ok to download and edit others images as part of the critique process. This became quite contentious over on the other site a few years ago, and it would be good to get that settled right off the bat.
Mike

Quite a few years ago there was another attempt at a series of critique threads. They were buried in the DPR Canon Lens forum. The individual who started it called it the "brutally honest" critique thread in an attempt to generate real feedback. It was successful for a year or so and then vanished. That thread and the one on FM are not for the majority of forum participants. Both had a number of dedicated participants. Others posted once, did not receive the likes they expected and moved on.

I've moderated critique sections on two other photo forums and I agree that there is a fine balance on the continuum between honesty and supportiveness. Brutality will not keep a forum populated with interesting photos, nor will vague unhelpful feedback. Critique forums can attract a variety of forum characters including trolls and some genuinely unwell people, but the majority gain from well thought out feedback. Moderators have more of a coaching role than they might in other sections, and preparation for posters and "citizen" critics is necessary. I remember the Canon effort, and there could be another thread or two out there on other camera specific sections.

Yes. Having moderated forums that did this both ways (one allowed edits, one did not), I can say it was much easier to provide critique when it was understood on the front end that the photos posted for critique could be edited to illustrate a particular point. The downside of that is trying to be sure the edits reflect the photographer's vision rather than the editor's. There's advantages and disadvantages both ways.

You are right to take your time, it is not one that should be added on a whim. It needs support from the beginning and guidelines, it's not an endeavor that will run itself as well as some of the others do. Please contact RoelhHendrickx or me on this forum if we can be of any help in sorting this out. We've done this stuff a long time. Meanwhile we will plan to open our any-brand/no theme critique thread Wednesday as usual as we have for 15 years.

I can vouch for the worth of this peer-to-per C&C exercize that has a 15 year history.
I've been a contributor there since the very first edition and have skipped little or any weeks.
After a few years I have become more actively involved.
This C&C thread that we will try to transplant, has a very friendly and constructive philosophy, offering in-depth technical AND artistic feedback on all images posted.

That is a fine introduction, that is very similar to the one we have been using for years:

***We are continuing the great tradition of this C&C thread because we are convinced that looking at, and talking about images is vital for better photography.
The idea is simple: you post an image and get critique on it, and in return give other people your opinion of their images, or vice versa.

Over the years we have also honed a set of suggestions for posting and feedback (albeit based on the concept of a threaded-view forum - it will require some tweaking for another format.

I am in favour of a general C&C section in forums. The fact that we consider posting our first edition under Oly SLR is just a matter of history: that is where we started, although our C&C thread is emphatically NON-brand specific.

We have got that covered in our standard "instructions"

Indeed, we have.
I will endeavour to make time available in the next weeks.
(Unfortunately, I have been extremely occupied with my "real job" in the two weeks since DPReview dropped the bomb of its closure, so I am grateful to Minniev for having picked up the ball and run with it like the champ that she is.