• Members 1737 posts
    April 18, 2023, 11:09 p.m.

    With a specified precision.

  • Members 221 posts
    April 18, 2023, 11:16 p.m.

    If that's what you believe to be a topic of discussion within the scope and context of the article, that's your perception. Readers can decide that for themselves.

  • Members 976 posts
    April 18, 2023, 11:35 p.m.

    Calling facts "perception" is a known fallacy.

  • Members 3909 posts
    April 18, 2023, 11:41 p.m.

    In that case

    is totally correct and a fact, not a perception.

  • Members 221 posts
    April 18, 2023, 11:54 p.m.
  • Members 3909 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:01 a.m.

    @TechTalk

    You're just rinsing and repeating your earlier posts so the obvious question is "So what?" because it doesn't change anything.

  • Members 221 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:02 a.m.

    Bits as a measure of precision was never in dispute. This is what happens when you chop words out of sentences and lose all context.

    Speaking of context and perception — that was the dispute which I suggest readers decide for themselves. See above.

  • Members 976 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:03 a.m.

    No rinsing that I can see.

  • Members 221 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:06 a.m.

    It's a merry-go-round, so hang on; it just keeps going round and round.

  • Members 3909 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:07 a.m.

    Well....we'll just have to disagree on that one because it appeared you clearly disputed that precision of measurements was involved when you said

    If anything, you comment seems to be an opinion or perception.

    In any case you now saying

    you agree that

    is true.

  • Members 221 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:14 a.m.

    Read the article and tell me whether you perceive the topic of discussion regarding levels is their precision or how they are distributed and let me know.

    How does precision become the topic of a discussion without ever mentioning the word precision at least once?

  • Members 221 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:19 a.m.

    Chopping words out of sentences to alter their context is a well-worn tactic.

  • Members 3909 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:30 a.m.

    We're getting way off topic now. Perhaps start your own thread if you want to discuss further.

    I posted earlier why we'll just have to disagree on this one 🙂

  • Members 221 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:34 a.m.

    Getting off topic was precisely the context for my remarks. It's that context which you appear to have missed.

  • Members 1737 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:43 a.m.

    He was complaining that there was limited quantizing density in the midtones and shadows because of the use of a linear ADC. Never mind that that is a red herring because of noise, but that's one of his points, and a reason he advances for ETTR. ETTR is a good thing, but that's not the reason.

    If you think that 64 bits is not sufficiently dense quantization for some shadow level, but want to stick with linear ADCs, then the obvious solution is to increase the precision of the ADC. That's what many people who bought Bruce's bogus quantization density argument clamored for, and one of the reasons we ended up with silly levels of precision in some Hasselblads, which ended up allowing them to more finely digitize pure noise.

    The thrust of his argument about quantizing levels points towards a solution that doesn't work.

    Another clear sign that he was confused was his talking about shadow posterization arising from a 12-bit ADC. The CCD sensors of the era had so much noise that that wasn't going to happen.

  • Members 1737 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:47 a.m.

    Bruce said this:

    "Film mimics the eye’s response to light, which is highly nonlinear. Most of our human
    senses display a significant compressive nonlinearity—a built-in compression that lets
    us function in a wide range of situations without driving our sensory mechanisms into
    overload"

    It is not, in general, true.

    Slide film has a expansive, not a compressive, nonlinerity.
    Negative film developed to N has a compressive nonlinearity.
    Negative film developed to N+x can have an expansive nonlinearity.
    Negative film optically printed on paper is approximately linear when you get away from the toe and shoulder regions.

  • Members 1737 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:53 a.m.

    Bruce said this:

    "Note that the on-camera histogram shows the histogram of the in-camera conversion to JPEG: a
    raw histogram would be a rather strange-looking beast, with all the data clumped at the shadow
    end..."

    That's not true at all, as a few minutes spent with RawDigger will demonstrate. There's no reason why a raw histogram has to use a linear x-axis, and for many purposes, it's better to use a nonlinear one.

  • Members 976 posts
    April 19, 2023, 12:55 a.m.

    Nice, and now we are presented with a challenge to make it linear, because in Nature eyes are presented with a linear distribution.