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is 40mp too good for lenses?

AlanSh
July 16, 2023
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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3247 posts
    July 16, 2023, 5:50 p.m. July 16, 2023, 5:50 p.m.
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    In January, I moved over to Fuji, from Canon APS-C (M series). I spent a lot of money on lenses. I've never had to return/change so many due to inconsistant softness (more on one side than the other). I'm just returning a Tamron 18-300 and I want to change my 70-300 for that reason. I've never noticed it on any of my previous camera/lenses - all Canon. I only really notice it when pixel peeping, but it does annoy me.If it's the same softness both sides, I am OK with that - it's when one side is worse than the other that I want it fixing.

    So, is the 40mp sensor too good and I am picking up inherent faults which have always been there on all lenses, or is Fuji (and Tamron) quality control just not that good.

    I do have some lenses which are fine. My 16-80, my 10-24, my 23 & 33 - all seem OK. But the 16-80 is the second one.

    I now have two X-T5 bodies. Which eliminates the body as a source of the problem.

    Here's one from my 70-300. Right hand side is a lot softer than LH side

    ATCF0110.JPG

    Thoughts from the experts?

    Alan

    ATCF0110.JPG

    JPG, 21.3 MB, uploaded by AlanSh on July 16, 2023.

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    finnan
    Members 322 posts
    July 16, 2023, 6:09 p.m. July 16, 2023, 6:09 p.m.
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    HAND.

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    davidwien
    Team 1784 posts
    July 16, 2023, 6:17 p.m. July 16, 2023, 6:17 p.m.
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    If you have a 40 Mp sensor, you need lenses that are good enough to take advantage of it. Otherwise why have it?

    😀

    David

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3247 posts
    July 16, 2023, 6:20 p.m. July 16, 2023, 6:20 p.m.
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    @finnan has written:

    Likely a tilt in the lens or lens mount.
    Do you use adapted lenses from another mount, or did you buy X-mount lenses for your Fujis?

    Possibly - but why so different?

    No, I always have X-mount lenses.

    Alan

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    bobn2
    Team 2240 posts
    July 16, 2023, 6:22 p.m. July 16, 2023, 6:22 p.m.
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    Pixel peeking isn't really a good way of evaluating relative quality, because you're very liable to be comparing different magnifications. Suppose you compare 26 and 40MP images via pixel peeping. You're looking at the 40MP image at 1.24 times larger linear magnification, so don't be surprised if it looks more blurry. The way that imaging works is that all sources of blur contribute to the final blur. That includes lens aberration blur, diffraction blur and pixellation blur. Assuming the same lens and settings, then if you increase the pixel count you'll get less pixellation blur, and the overall blur will be smaller, that is the image will be sharper. If the lens is the resolution bottleneck then the extra sharpness will be very small, but it will still be there. Ideally a camera should have a pixel count high enough that all your lenses are the bottleneck, then you know that you're getting the best from all the lenses.
    It's a funny thing, people wondering if their pixel count is too high. They rarely ask if their lens is too sharp for the camera, but that's essentially the same question.

    jaberg and JimKasson like this.

    favorite 2

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    bobn2
    Team 2240 posts
    July 16, 2023, 6:23 p.m. July 16, 2023, 6:23 p.m.
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    @davidwien has written:

    If you have a 40 Mp sensor, you need lenses that are good enough to take advantage of it. Otherwise why have it?

    To get the most of the lenses that you have. Increasing pixel count always increases resolution. If the lens isn't so good, probably not by much.

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    July 16, 2023, 6:29 p.m. July 16, 2023, 6:29 p.m.
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    @davidwien has written:

    If you have a 40 Mp sensor, you need lenses that are good enough to take advantage of it. Otherwise why have it?

    😀

    David

    I totally agree

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3247 posts
    July 16, 2023, 7:34 p.m. July 16, 2023, 7:34 p.m.
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    I don't mind a bit of blur, but what I expect is that it is the same on the left as on the right. If it isn't then I assume the lens is faulty.

    Is my assumption correct?

    Alan

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    July 16, 2023, 8:27 p.m. July 16, 2023, 8:27 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:

    I don't mind a bit of blur, but what I expect is that it is the same on the left as on the right. If it isn't then I assume the lens is faulty.

    Could be the lens. Could be the body.

    Try this test.

    blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/

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    DonaldB
    Members 2419 posts
    July 16, 2023, 8:46 p.m. July 16, 2023, 8:46 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:

    I don't mind a bit of blur, but what I expect is that it is the same on the left as on the right. If it isn't then I assume the lens is faulty.

    Is my assumption correct?

    Alan

    just turn the camera upside down and take an image is all you need to do to see if the lens elements are not aligned.

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3247 posts
    July 16, 2023, 8:49 p.m. July 16, 2023, 8:49 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:

    Could be the lens. Could be the body.

    Try this test.

    blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/

    Interesting reading. The first thing I notice is (assuming I've read it right) is that for a 300mm lens at F5.6, the target needs to be 9 metres away. Why so far away when the lens will happily focus much closer? blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/lens-screening-distances/aps-c-lens-screening-distances/

    Alan

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    July 16, 2023, 9:04 p.m. July 16, 2023, 9:04 p.m.
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    @davidwien has written:

    If you have a 40 Mp sensor, you need lenses that are good enough to take advantage of it. Otherwise why have it?

    😀

    David

    An image isn't finished when you capture it. You still have to display it, and it is always better to start with more samples for any further resampling. Resampling is not just changing the pixel count; it is also CA correction, distortion and perspective corrections, horizon leveling, etc.

    Targeting sharper pixels makes some sense if choosing lenses for a given sensor, but targeting sharper pixels for a given lens by using larger pixels doesn't make any, IQ-wise. It simply makes your files smaller. Is that most important to you?

    IanSForsyth likes this.

    favorite 1

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    July 16, 2023, 9:21 p.m. July 16, 2023, 9:21 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:
    @JimKasson has written:

    Could be the lens. Could be the body.

    Try this test.

    blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/

    Interesting reading. The first thing I notice is (assuming I've read it right) is that for a 300mm lens at F5.6, the target needs to be 9 metres away. Why so far away when the lens will happily focus much closer? blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/lens-screening-distances/aps-c-lens-screening-distances/

    Alan

    That is explained here:

    blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/theory-of-the-test/

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    July 16, 2023, 9:24 p.m. July 16, 2023, 9:24 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @AlanSh has written:

    I don't mind a bit of blur, but what I expect is that it is the same on the left as on the right. If it isn't then I assume the lens is faulty.

    Is my assumption correct?

    Alan

    just turn the camera upside down and take an image is all you need to do to see if the lens elements are not aligned.

    If there is a shift due to gravity and loose parts, that could make a difference, but if it is securely decentered, that won't change anything.

    IanSForsyth and AlanSh like this.

    favorite 2

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3247 posts
    July 16, 2023, 9:30 p.m. July 16, 2023, 9:30 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:

    That is explained here:

    blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/theory-of-the-test/

    Thank you. Yes, that explains it. But my issue with lenses is the differing levels of softness at left and right. I am not sure I need the complexity of a Siemens Star and all the tests I would need to run to see if a lens is not performing correctly. Actually, Donalds idea of turning the camer upside down would do nicely if I had a tripod mount on the top of my camera.

    But in the absense of that, I will continue to test using bricks.

    Alan

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    July 16, 2023, 9:39 p.m. July 16, 2023, 9:39 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:
    @JimKasson has written:

    That is explained here:

    blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/theory-of-the-test/

    Thank you. Yes, that explains it. But my issue with lenses is the differing levels of softness at left and right. I am not sure I need the complexity of a Siemens Star and all the tests I would need to run to see if a lens is not performing correctly. Actually, Donalds idea of turning the camer upside down would do nicely if I had a tripod mount on the top of my camera.

    But in the absense of that, I will continue to test using bricks.

    Alan

    Turning the camera upside down without changing the lens axis is difficult, even with a coaxial mount.

    Getting the alignment right for a brick wall is difficult also.

    Those are two of the reasons I developed the test.

    JohnVickers likes this.

    favorite 1

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    DonaldB
    Members 2419 posts
    July 16, 2023, 10:07 p.m. July 16, 2023, 10:07 p.m.
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    @JohnSheehyRev has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @AlanSh has written:

    I don't mind a bit of blur, but what I expect is that it is the same on the left as on the right. If it isn't then I assume the lens is faulty.

    Is my assumption correct?

    Alan

    just turn the camera upside down and take an image is all you need to do to see if the lens elements are not aligned.

    If there is a shift due to gravity and loose parts, that could make a difference, but if it is securely decentered, that won't change anything.

    well if it makes a sound and rattleing parts its the lens 🙄😂

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    DonaldB
    Members 2419 posts
    July 16, 2023, 10:08 p.m. July 16, 2023, 10:08 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @AlanSh has written:
    @JimKasson has written:

    That is explained here:

    blog.kasson.com/lens-screening-testing/theory-of-the-test/

    Thank you. Yes, that explains it. But my issue with lenses is the differing levels of softness at left and right. I am not sure I need the complexity of a Siemens Star and all the tests I would need to run to see if a lens is not performing correctly. Actually, Donalds idea of turning the camer upside down would do nicely if I had a tripod mount on the top of my camera.

    But in the absense of that, I will continue to test using bricks.

    Alan

    Turning the camera upside down without changing the lens axis is difficult, even with a coaxial mount.

    Getting the alignment right for a brick wall is difficult also.

    Those are two of the reasons I developed the test.

    are you serious ! its the best way KISS if your stranding in the exact spot and use center focus on a point and spin the camera around without adjusting AF it cant get any more accurate.

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