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My LE is going back.

AlanSh
April 14, 2024
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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3257 posts
    April 14, 2024, 4:54 p.m. April 14, 2024, 4:54 p.m.
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    I was lucky and managed to get an X100LE. Picked it up yesterday and was preparing to sell my X100VI. But I did some quick comparison tests just now and the LE lens is really soft at the edges. So, it's going back.

    Both photos taken with full Auto. The original ended up at F3.6, the LE at F4 - so should be "slightly" better. But it isn't. Have a look at the horse and fence on the right.

    Here's the original one.

    D6CF0029.JPG

    Here's the LE photo.

    ASCF0036.JPG

    Feel free to play.

    Alan

    ASCF0036.JPG

    JPG, 23.6 MB, uploaded by AlanSh on April 14, 2024.

    D6CF0029.JPG

    JPG, 21.9 MB, uploaded by AlanSh on April 14, 2024.

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    davidwien
    Team 1786 posts
    April 14, 2024, 7:47 p.m. April 14, 2024, 7:47 p.m.
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    Honestly, Alan, I find it a toss up. Are you sure that you are not focussed on the telegraph pole in the centre? In both shots the grass behind it has the same out of focus look to me as things at the sides. Although, it is true that the wall at the left hand edge 2/3 up the photos is better defined in the top photo.

    Sorry! I may not be of much help...

    David

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3257 posts
    April 14, 2024, 7:53 p.m. April 14, 2024, 7:53 p.m.
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    I was focussing on the telegrtaph pole. And I expect the fence gate on the right (below the horse) to be soft or OOF as they were taken at around F4. But the bottom picture is worse than the top one. To me, it's obvious. If the two had been the same, I would have been happy - but I'm not paying for crap quality.

    Alan

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    NCV
    Members 2103 posts
    April 14, 2024, 8:01 p.m. April 14, 2024, 8:01 p.m.
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    Le LE seems pretty soft compared to the first on, when enlarged.

    Have you tried shooting on a tripod to take the hand holding element out of the equation.

    Looks like a defective camera more than a badly designed lens.

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    DonaldB
    Members 2419 posts
    April 14, 2024, 8:09 p.m. April 14, 2024, 8:09 p.m.
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    the sharper one clearly has sharpening applied looking at high magnifacation.

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3257 posts
    April 14, 2024, 10:02 p.m. April 14, 2024, 10:02 p.m.
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    Donald,

    they both have exactly the same settings. And both are SOOC.

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    DanHasLeftForum
    Members 4254 posts
    April 14, 2024, 10:40 p.m. April 14, 2024, 10:40 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:

    I was focussing on the telegrtaph pole. And I expect the fence gate on the right (below the horse) to be soft or OOF as they were taken at around F4. But the bottom picture is worse than the top one. To me, it's obvious. If the two had been the same, I would have been happy - but I'm not paying for crap quality.

    Alan

    You should be comparing raw files, not sooc jpegs where the internal processing from raw to jpeg could be different.

    Also, the blur in the slower shutter speed photo seems to be more due to camera shake than anything else.

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    April 14, 2024, 10:57 p.m. April 14, 2024, 10:57 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:

    Donald,

    they both have exactly the same settings. And both are SOOC.

    SOOC does not necessarily mean the same conversion processing, though.

    You could try again, shooting the exact same thing in raw and manual mode so every exposure parameter is the same, and then compare with a converter that can ignore the camera model's default processing. FastRawViewer and RawDigger both do minimal interpretations of raw data and just do color conversions and standard tone curves, with no camera-specific sharpening or NR.

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    DonaldB
    Members 2419 posts
    April 15, 2024, 2:43 a.m. April 15, 2024, 2:43 a.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:

    Donald,

    they both have exactly the same settings. And both are SOOC.

    one clearly has more sharpening applied

    Screenshot 2024-04-15 124136.png

    Screenshot 2024-04-15 124136.png

    PNG, 413.6 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 15, 2024.

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3257 posts
    April 15, 2024, 8:37 a.m. April 15, 2024, 8:37 a.m.
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    @JohnSheehyRev has written:
    @AlanSh has written:

    Donald,

    they both have exactly the same settings. And both are SOOC.

    SOOC does not necessarily mean the same conversion processing, though.

    You could try again, shooting the exact same thing in raw and manual mode so every exposure parameter is the same, and then compare with a converter that can ignore the camera model's default processing. FastRawViewer and RawDigger both do minimal interpretations of raw data and just do color conversions and standard tone curves, with no camera-specific sharpening or NR.

    Yes, I have been asked by Fuji to do a test on a tripod with all the same params.

    Alan

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    DanHasLeftForum
    Members 4254 posts
    April 15, 2024, 10:42 a.m. April 15, 2024, 10:42 a.m.
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    Using a tripod is just plain common sense I would have thought.

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3257 posts
    April 16, 2024, 1:08 p.m. April 16, 2024, 1:08 p.m.
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    I redid the tests on the tripod. Same Speed, aperture and ISO. LE is slightly worse.

    Cropped from the original camera.

    Original X100VI crop.jpg

    Cropped from the new camera

    LE X100VI crop.jpg

    LE X100VI crop.jpg

    JPG, 56.8 KB, uploaded by AlanSh on April 16, 2024.

    Original X100VI crop.jpg

    JPG, 78.6 KB, uploaded by AlanSh on April 16, 2024.

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    April 16, 2024, 2:12 p.m. April 16, 2024, 2:12 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:

    I redid the tests on the tripod. Same Speed, aperture and ISO. LE is slightly worse.

    Cropped from the original camera.

    Original X100VI crop.jpg

    Cropped from the new camera

    LE X100VI crop.jpg

    I can see aliasing in the bottom (LE) version at 100% pixel view, despite it looking softer, so my conclusion is a difference in Fuji's version of what Canonites call "Picture Styles". If you use USM on the LE version, with a radius of 0.3px, as you increase the strength, details sharpen readily and rapidly before any haloing or exacerbated noise occurs, which makes me lean towards the theory that there may be nothing specifically wrong with the lens, but the "Picture Style" is set to "not sharp".

    You really should try a neutral converter with raw capture, IMO. If they are the same, then all that the LE may need is for an edited or different "Picture Style".

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    AlanSh
    Forum Admin 3257 posts
    April 16, 2024, 2:22 p.m. April 16, 2024, 2:22 p.m.
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    They both had exactly the same settings. The thing is, I'm not after abosulte quality here, I'm doing comparison tests to show that my original one produces better images. Which I believe I have done.

    If you want to see the originals and the RAF files, knock yourself out onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AIm881Ug_dBsz7I&id=91D191DFBA768B20%215973&cid=91D191DFBA768B20

    Alan

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    ArvoJ
    Team 882 posts
    April 16, 2024, 5:17 p.m. April 16, 2024, 5:17 p.m.
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    My Silkypix can't open those RAF files - no support for X100VI yet :(
    JPG files show clear preference for non-LE version, maybe even in centre of image, certainly in corners.

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    DonaldB
    Members 2419 posts
    April 16, 2024, 7:45 p.m. April 16, 2024, 7:45 p.m.
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    @AlanSh has written:

    They both had exactly the same settings. The thing is, I'm not after abosulte quality here, I'm doing comparison tests to show that my original one produces better images. Which I believe I have done.

    If you want to see the originals and the RAF files, knock yourself out onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AIm881Ug_dBsz7I&id=91D191DFBA768B20%215973&cid=91D191DFBA768B20

    Alan

    if your worried about the sharpness you should have kept the 26meg camera. from all the reviews ive seen the new camera images are inherantly soft.

    looking at these heavey crops incamera raw processing has slightly changed.

    Screenshot 2024-04-17 054138.png

    Screenshot 2024-04-17 053743.png

    Screenshot 2024-04-17 054138.png

    PNG, 692.3 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 16, 2024.

    Screenshot 2024-04-17 053743.png

    PNG, 188.0 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on April 16, 2024.

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    April 16, 2024, 8:10 p.m. April 16, 2024, 8:10 p.m.
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    @ArvoJ has written:

    My Silkypix can't open those RAF files - no support for X100VI yet :(
    JPG files show clear preference for non-LE version, maybe even in centre of image, certainly in corners.

    I forgot about the slowness of raw decoding software with new cameras. and X-Trans is not going to make it any faster!

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    ArvoJ
    Team 882 posts
    April 16, 2024, 8:49 p.m. April 16, 2024, 8:49 p.m.
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    @JohnSheehyRev has written:
    @ArvoJ has written:

    My Silkypix can't open those RAF files - no support for X100VI yet :(
    JPG files show clear preference for non-LE version, maybe even in centre of image, certainly in corners.

    I forgot about the slowness of raw decoding software with new cameras. and X-Trans is not going to make it any faster!

    Silkypix just crashes while opening X100VI raw file, slow or not :)

    JohnSheehyRev likes this.

    favorite 1

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