New Member, Help with a DCS 14/n

I attempted to post the below on DPReview, but it's still waiting for mod approval that I'm guessing may never come. I'm hoping I might get some help here

Here I am, after close to 20 years as a serious photo hobbyist finally joining this site in its waning days.

A few years ago I went on a kick of buying up a bunch of the DSLRs I lusted after in my early days and couldn't afford, and among them bought a nice boxed(but used) DCS 14/n. That was in 2017, and I've played with it/used it on and off but never have been 100% happy with it. That didn't stop me from buying up a bunch of batteries(which recent testing has shown me I'm still getting respectable charges on a few of them).

A few days ago, I decided to play with it again. I took a few photos and opened them in Lightroom Classic as I do with files from my other cameras(A D850 and D5 are my main ones these days, although also a regularly a D800 and D810) and they were...terrible. I had blocky shadows and weird color banding especially on high contrast areas.

Reading some here and other places I found examples here showing side by side results with Lightroom or Photoshop(both of which are presumably at the whims of ACR) and Photodesk. It was a night and day difference between Photodesk and the Adobe results, with beautiful shadows, smooth color transitions,

So, with that in mind, I'd like to revisit it, but want to play with Photodesk. I've hunted around but can't seem to locate my disks that came with the camera. The Mac version would be far, far easier for me to deal with(and yes I have PowerPC era hardware, both OS 9 and OS X, on which to run it) but the Mac version seems non-existent out there. Every link I find to it is dead.

Also, I know a lot of these were converted to the SLR/n sensor, and I don't think mine has but wanted to know how to tell for sure. When I power it on, mine says DCS 14 on the small LCD and then tells me it has 512mb(which I think was an upgrade also if I've read correctly). The lowest ISO I seem to be able to set is 80. Does this sound like an unconverted camera?

Just as a few other things, and to summarize what I'm saying here:

1. Does anyone have a .DMG/Mac copy of Photodesk? I'd prefer the most recent, but any works.

2. How can I definitively tell whether or not I have the original 14/n sensor or the SLR/n sensor?

3. I've seen references here to an alternative Adobe Camera RAW plug-in for the RAW files from this. Does anyone know where this can be found"

4. I've read on here about a newer firmware version. Does this only work on the SLR/n or can it work on the 14/n also, and if so where might I find that?

Thanks! Hopefully too soon I can get my DCS 760 out and use it also.

Addendum 4/2

Since writing the above, I've found and installed Photo Desk 3.0.3 on a Titanium PowerBook G4. I'm definitely getting results better than what I saw in Lightroom, but I'm still less than blown away.

BTW, I've been running it in both OS X 10.5.8 and OS 9. I prefer the latter for speed, but I only have Photoshop CS 2 on this computer which of course is OS X only. It seems to be a Carbon program-or I guess it is since it runs in both X and 9(no classic mode in 10.5.8, and I'd refuse to run something already this slow in classic even if it was an option). I should maybe install PS 7(I have a set of disks around here somewhere) since as best as I could tell it looks like there's a plug-in that works.

For one thing, Photodesk is a pain. It seems as though I only see a relatively low resolution preview(is this normal?) and don't see full res until I export to Photoshop or save a JPEG/TIFF. Especially when I'm evaluating a series of photos for sharpness I'd love to be able to see them at full res.

Also, I've cranked the noise reduction to its minimum settings and my results still seem relatively soft. At first I thought maybe it was the 50mm f/1.4 AF I was using(very first gen with the thin plastic focus ring). It's still a lot softer on this camera at comparable apertures than it is on my D5. I've tried turning up sharpening in Photodesk and then in Photoshop, but that just seems to give me sharpening artifacts without really improving details. I haven't yet charged D3 batteries and I figure the D5 is a fairer resolution comparison than one of my D8xx cameras. Just to rule out a lens, though, I tried my seldom-used 50mm f/1.8 AF-S(which is an outstanding lens) and even at f/5.6 or f/8 it's still really soft on this camera. I've been seeing this outside so my shutter speeds are high even at smaller apertures(usually 1/125-1/500) so motion blur shouldn't be a problem). I even tried a few with my 24-70mm f/2.8E, which of course has no aperture control on this camera but I know it looks great on high-res bodies wide open. This is a lens that I have shot probably for thousands of exposures since getting it back in October of last year, and used its predecessor for tens of thousands in the few years before that, so feel like I know its characteristics well.

If anyone has any insight into getting the most out of this camera, I'd certainly love to hear it! Also, I'm eyeing up SLR/ns on Ebay, which seem plentiful now but were scarce when I was actively looking for one and bought my current one. Is it worth just biting the bullet and buying if I want to be serious about this camera?

Hi @benhutch!
A few years ago i did the same as you and went buying every kodak DCS i could find, and of course i got a 14/n.
I used a lot an NC2000e but it was too low res, I love the colors of that camera, when i bought the 14/n i was expecting an NC2000 but high res.
To my surprise i had the same result as you did, the 14/n was a terrible performer, picture wise and usability wise too, the menus are horrible, it is super slow, it lags a lot... to make matters worse the rubber is becoming sticky.
I can deal with that if the pictures worth it, sadly is not the case, the sensor suffers a lot from blooming, colors are not accurate nor appealing, the NC2000 is not accurate but is very appealing.
I ended up no using it at all.
You can really tell that the camera was a rushed release, it has a strong prototype vibe on it.
I'm still looking after an F5 DCS based body to take the place on the NC2000 but they are scarce.
I love all the history behind Kodak DCS cameras so is a nice thing to have.

Lowest normal ISO for the SLR/n is 160. Lowest special ISO is 6. If yours offers 80, then it's still using the 14n sensor.

The 14n sensor was known for a lot of noise, and for a too weak hot mirror. You may get better image quality by adding a hot mirror filter on the lens (like I have to use on my 460c, which has basically no hot mirror).

I don't have PhotoDesk. I'd be very interested in trying it. One alternative I can recommend is RawTherapee, which allows selection of other demosaicing algorithms, some of which work better for suppressing false color artifacts which are more likely due to the lack of an AA filter on the FillFactory sensors. Another option is to make your own body profile with a color checker. I have done that for LR/LRC and have been pretty happy with results there.

Thanks!

I can share the copy of Photodesk I have if you'd like it, but ultimately it seems like if I want to actually get some use out of this platform that I should just buy an SLR/n.

Also, do you know if anyone can/does rebuild the batteries? I've done my fair share of NiCd and NiMH packs but Li-ion scares me. I'd still tackle it, though, if there was a documented way of doing them. I'm still working through the batteries I have. I think I have 5, and so far one is good for maybe 50 shots, one for maybe 20, and one basically will power up the camera and maybe let me take one. I have the dummy "battery" that connects to the charger, but somewhere or another in moving(almost 3 years ago...) misplaced the cord to tie the two together. I know it's AROUND but don't know where. Also probably in the same place I'd find the charger for my DCS 760 batteries...

I do have an external hot mirror filter around here, so I'll try that and see where it gets me. I'll try your suggested software also.

I don't know if anyone rebuilds the batteries. They seem to still be pretty available... unlike the earlier DCS batteries. I just have the one that came with my camera. Probably should pick up a spare...

Opening the battery looks like it would be pretty destructive. Not sure what cells are in there. For Lion it would be two cells, I guess, based on the voltage.

Hi, hope you don't mind me crashing your thread.

Reportedly the DCS 14/n was a lemon owing to the sensor and processor board issues - Italian flag syndrome, noise etc. etc. The SLR/n is a completely different animal and as you rightly suggest the base ISO of the SLR/n is 160 although you can get down to (I think) 6 iso with the long exposure mode; fiddly to use and you definitely need a good tripod but incredible clean smooth images. I haven't used my SLR/n for several years owing to stale batteries (around 30 exposures at best). I need to re-investigate replacing the cells; if you live stateside I think you can still get batteries from Midwest Camera - I bought a couple from them a few years ago but they were pretty stale when I received them. There was a modification available for the DCS 14/n to the same sensor and processor board as the SLR/n, there was also a change to the memory compartment door which now has a small window enabling you to see the LED indicator that the camera is writing to the card (very useful if you are in the habit of switching off as soon as you finish shooting), the new designation was DCS 14/nx and the modification reportedly cost around $1500 at the time. Your camera should report the version as DCS 14nx and the base ISO should be 160, I think the memory upgrade to 512Mb was available separately and I think could be carried out by your local repair shop rather than a factory upgrade.
If you are interested I have copies of the Kodak software somewhere, just let me know - and if I were you I would look out for a SLR/n if you can find one, in good condition I would expect to pay around $300 for a clean example.

Well now i jump to the wagon, how can i certainly check if my 14/n has been modified? My camera used to belong to Kodak itself (don't know how they used it?).
The pictures look quite bad, base ISO is 160 and has 256Mb on a SODIMM on the inside. Card door has no window for the LED.

When i got it i took it apart to fix a broken CF pin and i took some shots here

It also has a service menu which i don't think is normal for a production camera.

Wow…you’re braver then I am pulled that beast apart!

I have v.4.3, runs under 10.6 without any problems.
You may want to read www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53502445 and dalex-257.livejournal.com/1734.html

Interesting that it uses SODIMM. Sounds like that part of the upgrade might be as simple as replacing that module. I wonder if it will take more... 1GB? Not that it's really needed.

What's on the Service menu?

Edit: just looked at your photos. Looks like the 14n uses the same ADCs as the Contax N Digital : TDA9965

I don't have it at hand right now, but i'll take some shots of the menu and post them here, I recall it having some info about n° of shots, some setting to change the file format to some files I could not open on the PC, and another submenu with every register and the option to modify it to anything you want, this one looks scary since it feel you can really mess up the camera from here.

As for the SODIMM is a regular Kingston PC133 SDRAM, I don't think there are larger than 512mb of these and 512mb ones are not that easy to find either.

Cool fact you found about the ADCs.

Might be one of Alexy Danilchenko's custom firmware versions. github.com/Alexey-Danilchenko/Kodak-DCS-Tools/blob/master/Firmwares/README.md

Mine won't start up properly any more. It sort of stutters through the boot process, constantly cycling. Very occasionally if you are very persistent it might start up but it only lasts a short while and struggles to release the shutter or stutters focusing. Clearly something in the electronics is failing/has failed. Maybe power regulation or something? It's now gone to the camera museum (the attic).

Yes, it does have that firmware but because I put it there when I got it, when I received it it had a 4 dot something FW, with the lossy 10 bit compression that Alexy's FW patches, anyhow it had the Test menu with that FW, maybe an older version of Alexy's FW.

On Alexy's Github the Test mode is mentioned but for the 645 backs not the DSLRs, for the DSLR only shows the change of the Raw files and the removal of a warning text on long exposure, it might has it but is not listed.

Oh, about the SDRAM size change, you have to manually change it from the Test menu.

Anyone, for the curious ones on the room I've uploaded a bunch of shot where all the options can be seen here

The RAM in these cameras is a laptop one, maybe just came loose, quite a common failure, you might give it a shot to reseat some connectors it could bring it back from the dead

Well, I've purchased an SLRn that I'm hoping will be here this week. I did also find my plug in "battery" and the cable to connect it to the charger. I've been testing batteries and have a couple that are good for 30-50 shots, so probably can actually manage some field use! Hopefully I can report on this soon.

Would you have and be willing to share the .dmg of 4.3?

I have Version 4.3.3 PRO14N if you are interested