I think everyone here needs to take a step back, take a deep breath and calm down.
If you don't know, I'm an admin of this site.
Looking at the threads, to me, Primeshooter raised an interesting question. Now, I don't know the history on DPReview and, to be honest, I don't want to. I thought AndyMillerPhoto's reply was a lttle out of order. and that just got everyone's hackles up. And off everyone went.
So, maybe you should all stop and think about what you've posted and how relevant it really is to photography. Calling someone a troll & a dick is not really what we need. Questioning someones ideas by asking for 'proof' is also a little bit unneccessary in this instance.
If you think I'm being overly sensitive or interfering, feel free to say so.
if you wish to discuss the technical aspects of the Z9 camera, compared to others, then that, in my opinion, is how this post should proceed. Which, I think, is what was originally asked.
I have Z7, Z7 II and Z9. I have had Sony A1. I have not owned any of the R series Canons
Did not like the A1 and got rid of it very soon after having bought it.
I shoot landscapes, wildlife, airshows and auto racing.
I have no problems with AF on Z9 in any circumstance. Since the updated firmware for the Z7 and Z7 II (and having taken time to experiment and learn about the AF intricacies), I have NO problems with the AF on these cameras either.
Wow, you really got it bad. I have never been able to "control the dialogue" over at DPR (or any forum for that matter) and I have never had a thread or post pulled that had anything to do with me getting it pulled... ever. Posts and threads were pulled by moderators and I never ever asked that they do it. If you have evidence put it up otherwise you are talking from sour grapes as you couldn't get your own way.
You have had a long history of dissatisfaction with Nikon so, I don't know why you don't just go with the Canon R5 if you've found it works for you. If Canon (or Sony) has the cameras and more importantly the lenses, then buy either that suits your needs. If you do buy the Z9 you will always be wondering whether the Canon R5 or Sony A1 might just be that little bit better, there is no need to beat yourself up over it, just sell your Nikon gear and buy Canon or Sony and be happy, move on.
However, I have a good friend that shoots the Canon R5 and we both go shooting birds and I can assure you he isn't getting any more keepers than I with my Z9, in fact I think I am more successful, but that may be just technique or lenses used. Is that definitive? No, as we are probably not pushing our cameras to the extreme like some would like to think that they need to do. However, I will say one thing, he covets the Nikon 400 f4.5 VRS, the 500 f5.6 PF and the 800 f6.3 PF, he isn't all that happy with the Canon RF lens offerings nor the prices. But, like cameras, lenses are updated and new ones released all the time.
I am not going to try to convince you one way or the other as I really don't care what you shoot with but it just seems as though you are ready for a change due to your prior dissatisfactions with Nikon and it seems as though you need to try another brand, it may be time to move on.
I think that the OP could have asked the question simply as "how does Z9 AF compare to R5 or R3?". But instead the OP chose to make several inflammatory assertions.
The OP started in a tone that implied he was re-igniting old feuds.
Then he proceeded to make wild assertions re the inferiority of the Z cameras.
Now, if you are a Z user you may be sensitive to this due to the Nikon bashing that went on for a while on Youtube channels.
One also often comes across these types of statements without any real evidence, sometimes just based on what people see on these channels.
If the OP was seriously interested in views of the Z users rather than just trying to carry on old quarrels, then he would have asked without trying to rile Z users.
I personally use Z6 and Z9, and occasionally the camera focuses on the wrong thing. This may be due to my incompetence or just the fact that all instruments are fallible. Or some other factor such as the lenses I am using, or the subjects and distance of the subject. There are many factors involved, and simplistic statements that make generalizations do not help.
I do find knowing when Canon or Sony models do better or worse would be helpful. But to answer this question one would need to have access to both systems, similar lenses and perform systematic tests under various conditions for various subjects.
He could have, but he didn't. Back in my early days on DPReview I was currently a Canon user, but had been a long time Nikon user in the past. I used to frequent both the Canon and Nikon forums. They had very different atmospheres. On the Canon forums there were often discussions about the lower DR figures of Canon cameras. Any on discussing the issue honestly would be denounced as a troll. On the Nikon forums there would be frequent threads started on why Nikon didn't make their own sensors, or that the FF options only had 12MP or that kind of thing. By and large the people there treated them with a detached interest - 'Oh yes? Does having 22MP make a difference to you?' and so on. Those threads just faded away. Using both forums I recognises that many of those threads were started by people from the Canon forum - but they didn't cause much reaction. In general, that's the way to deal with this kind of thread - if you're not interested just ignore it. If you are interested, discuss.
With the Z6 there is lag in the viewfinder - so it has never been clear whether the issues with Z6 are to do with viewfinder lag or the focus system.
Nikon made significant improvements to the focus system via firmware updates.
Z9 obviously has a parallel feed of sensor data to the viewfinder and thus removes the lag.
Beyond these two aspects it is difficult to know what is being done differently say between Nikon and Canon models.
I heard Nikon does PDAF+contrast detect finetuning.
I heard Canon only does PDAF.
Are any of these statements true?
Of course the other difference is the dual pixel system in Canon versus pixel masking in Nikon and Sony.
Not sure that that has any affect on focus systems.
Not at all, I don't have any problems with the D850, or D810 for what I use them for. The R5 does not work for me, if you read back I gave a reason. I merely added that in her to show how poor the Z7 AF system is, that was all. I never said I would buy or want a Z9 either. PS I am not beating myself up either, just seeking the truth from folks that have used all or at least two of the flagships. They after all are really going to be the only ones who can compare them and their AF abilities. Rf mount is too closed in terms of lens selection, I already know this. I was commenting on the AF system only, not the rest of the system. My post was all about - as Alan the mod clearly got, the true AF abilities of the Z9 and what that might mean for the Z8 if and when it comes along. To work out that story, we need to at least asertain that the Z9 can play in the same league as the R5 don't we?
Regarding your buddy with Z9 / R5 good! We are getting somewhere, finally. This is exactly what I asked, the real story of how they compare. So it does sound promising that if the Z8 has the Z9 AF system it will at least match the R5. This was what I was asking, without all the defensive posts about how the Z9 is great and this and that...
No need to be resorting to the move on thing, I have clearly explained what I was discussing, (I'll say it again, the Mod here Alan got it loud and clear and he has posted here saying so) let's calm down on the defensive posts and look at the brand with a critical eye without the rose tinted glasses as soon as anyone suggests one brand might have a better AF system, or this or that.
If only you could ask the simple question without resorting to conspiracy theories about pulled posts and camera sales, you would get the feedback that you want. Its not that hard to figure out but you two always go down the same path. Lather rinse repeat.
Your actual question is very fair. If only we could be convinced that you actually want an answer rather than continuing your dirty laundry from DPR. Time will tell.
I respect anothermike's talent and ability and analytical approach to things and he too complained about the focus from his Z9 in a studio setting. He keeps his 850 for that and uses the Z9 for everything else, iirc. I would love it if he jumped on and explained what the issue is for those of us who don't shoot in the studio, I would love that. But, sadly, he tends to avoid threads that start like this.
Maybe he does and that is his choice. I know several other posters' having this specific issue and there is sadly no fix - it's the AF system. PS, it's not a Z9, it's a Z7 he is talking about. And again, if he posted that on dpreview it would have likely got pulled. like any other thread I saw that disappeared when someone had a question about the Z7 focus system...
Totally different times now compared to months or years ago on that site. Things are being said and coming out now that wouldn't have been allowed before. Ps he hasn't really said much...so a bad example on your part to demonstrate the point.
I am extremely unhappy with my Z7 (original version) with regards to AF performance in the studio, and have done objective tests (shown in dpreview) in comparison with the D850, and that's with static, "easy" subjects under very bright modelling lights. I am happy with the Z7 for all other tasks so I don't hate the camera, at all. Just don't care for it for studio work. That's a use case not everyone is involved in of course, which is why I think we see so much "heat" in these comments.
Since then, I have acquired a Z7-II, but have not yet shot it in the studio to see if it does better. Perhaps in a month.
I do not own a Z9, but like primeshooter, am very curious as to whether this body does AF well in the studio environment, as that would indicate whether I get a Z8 (The Z9's size does not solve other problems I require to be solved to justify the expense)
To be blunt, some posts in this thread have gotten way out of hand. Andys in particular is uncalled for. Primeshooter asked a very valid question; one can always argue whether he phrased it perfectly or not - but his question, as I read it, stands as a valid one. One that I'm interested to know, although as it usually will be, I'll have to do my own testing next season to see for myself.
