Nikon Z AF

If I am reading this table right, it shows that z 7 wide S on par with D850. After reading Thom Hogan's and Steve Perry's books I realized that focusing with Z cameras is different then with DSLRs and it takes some learning curve.

@Sagittarius An update: After running that test, which was at F/5.6, I thought maybe AF-S/Wide Small was the "answer" but sadly in real world conditions at F/9 in the studio, while it did a bit better than AF-S single sensor, it still didn't work out that well. Unfortunately. I do need to (a lot) more testing to put some qualitative measures to what I've been seeing in the studio environment for a couple years now, but to do it right takes time, which is a bit in short supply at the moment.

Thank you for your reply. Why is F/9 in studio? Are you still using Z 7 or Z 7 II?

Because apertures like f/9 are standard in studio shooting. I think this is part of the problem. People are commenting on subject matters they do not have proper grasp on.

Nikon DSLRs are using the fastest aperture on the lens to focus. Z cameras are using set apertures up to f/5.6. And this is in addition to the other differences between focusing systems of the DSLRs and MLs. Also would you be so kind to explain why f/9 is a standard for studio shooting?

Google search finds from f2.8 to f8 and everything in between. Also studio shoots can be different: portraits, products, dancers you name it.

The point in most studio shots is to light and get fabulous dof. Most shooters do not want ears drifting out of focus. At these often close distances and large format sensors, they do unless one is well stopped down. Yes it will be different between formats (and subject distances obviously)...but generally they are not shooting much at wide open apertures or even the first few. The old school portraits are all at f/8...there will be shots where 2.8 is used...mike is clearly wanting detail over blur.

I know you know all this; saying it for the other posters' benefit who is consulting Google.

If we just go by specs, the Z9 low light capability has been improved.

• Z7 normal up to -1 EV, and -4 EV in low-light AF mode
• Z7 II normal up to -3 EV, and -4 EV in low-light AF mode
• Z9 normal up to -7 EV and -9 EV in star-light view

Does anyone know what the differences are in these modes?

Starlight mode uses a slow refresh rate I believe like sonys bright monitoring. Slower to focus but very sensitive.

I am aware. It seems focusing so stopped down might help defend against focus shift; but isn't helping the system acquire accurate focus on the z7. Perhaps.

See my other post as to why a lot of studio guys will say shoot at f8-f16

I decided to rejoin here to chime on this topic. Firstly, anyone that disagrees with @AnotherMike is likely to be on sticky ground technically. Secondly, I'm going to stick my head above the parapet with regards to Nikon Z6/7/II in the studio. That might get me shot down because unfortunately I'm only a photographer, not a techie. So, apologies if I get anything technically wrong.

Anyhow:

I'm a fan of the Z system and was invested in it heavily until earlier this year. For professional work my needs changed last year and reluctantly I switched to Sony. I needed a matching pair of stacked sensor cameras and a pair of "like new" A9II bodies with warranty was less than a single Z9. Bulk and weight was a massive part of my decision too. Wearing a pair of A9II's all day is akin to a single Z9. But I digress.

This choice was simply down to my changed needs for minimising rolling shutter and flicker banding whilst having to shoot silent shutter on film sets. AF and the like didn't factor into my decision (although I was aware of the reputation of Sony for being ahead on the AF front).

I mention all this because I don't want to come across as a troll or be accused of being one. I like Nikon!

1. Anyhow, in the studio I could make the Z6II and Z7II work, but would have to overshoot as my keeper rate was perhaps 70% on average.
2. If the light was good in the studio with high key lighting I could make eye detect work in wide area large, subject to using the joystick to put the focus box on the face.
3. If doing low key (think moody lighting of grizzly old faces) then even single point would struggle.
4. Why should anyone be surprised at this?
5. With a dSLR you'd be focussing wide open, regardless of aperture.
6. With a Z6/7II you are focussing at the chosen aperture down to f5.6. Wasting all the light from your faster lens.
7. The classic studio apertures are f8 through to f11 for sufficient dof.
8. Some have asked on this thread why stop down so much?
9. With respect those folk don't shoot studio, or if they do they accept eyes in focus with tip of nose and ears OOF.
10. So, In summary, say you are shooting with an 85mm f1.4 lens at f11 for dof.
11. With a D850 you will focus at f1.4 and shoot at f11. With a Nikon Z6/7 you will FOCUS AT f5.6
12. How many stops of light is the sensor being denied for AF purposes here? Let that sink in......

Anyway, back to Sony. On my A9II's there is an AF mode called "Aperture Drive AF". It's frankly game changing for studio and low light photographers.

When this mode is changed from "Standard" to "Focus Priority" your lens now focusses wide open, including third party lenses.

To put that in perspective. If I was shooting in the studio with my A9II and Sigma 85mm f1.4 DG DN and my mate was standing next to me with his Nikon Z6II and 85mm f1.2. If we both needed f11 for dof for the same shot he would be focusing at f5.6 and I'd be focusing at f1.4.

Can you guess which system would gather more light to assist the AF??

It really is as simple as that.

Maybe it could be fixed in firmware. Maybe Nikon is becoming the de facto BIF brand instead? I dunno.....

I think it's 5.6 if you shoot at f11...

Oops yes you are right, I will edit my post. But the Sony guy will be at 1.4 not 5.6.....

Nikon renamed low light AF on Z 7 II to starlight view on Z 9. Essentially it does the same thing - boosts the brightness of the viewfinder and invokes contrast detection step in focusing

Err, we were talking about Z6/7 series not Z9. Also, I'm not talking about "apply setting to live view" which does not alter the aperture used for focus on Z6/7 series cameras. On a Z6/7 series you will focus at f5.6 if using studio apertures of f8 to f11. Imagine the waste of money on the 50mm f1.2 lol!

With Sony you can use your f1.2 or f1.4 lens at studio aperture of f8 or f11 AND STILL use wide open light gathering for AF

He defends the undefendable. Like the D800 left AF issue. I had a very early (April 1 2012) D800. It did not have the left AF issue. However, I bought a used D800e and I received two original bill of sales. The one I bought was a replacement for another one. So I received the bill of sale for what the seller originally bought, as well as the bill of sale for the one I bought from him, showing that the first body had been replaced by the second body for the left AF issues. Both invoices were from Henry's, Canada's largest photography chain. I think it's safe to assume that $4000 or so camera bodies weren't replaced on a whim.

There was also the screwy AF issues I have old PMs from a couple of members who had their bodies back to Nikon 3 or 4 times without the issues being fixed. And in later years, many threads detailing the issues on DPReview.

It's likely Len gets paid for his efforts. It would seem ridiculous that someone would put in that much time, thousands and thousands of posts, without some remuneration.

And all in damage control mode.

Leonard had about 30,000 posts at the other place. All defending Nikon and Nikon can do no wrong. Or operator error. But he never posted a single photograph to back up his lectures IIRC. It's safe to say he was either in the pay of Nikon (or an idiot if he wasn't).

Either way, he's got no credibility whatsoever to anyone with half a brain cell.