You have AndyMiller liking your post, so there's that.
Just take a deep breathe and let it go. You can't get all sanctimonious here and get a thread locked down.
And.............. When a fellow gets Nikon gear before the official release date, there's a bond there somewhere.
Logical point. I myself cannot take any payrolled ambassador or 'buy at my affiliate link' reviewer seriously. Not when it's my own hard earned. Infact this whole thread might be futile in asking any question if we cannot get past the brand defensiveness.
Whether or not you can take many reviewers who illustrate what and how they do it seriously is a problem for you, not us.
Surely it is YOU who is being brand defensive - AND also implying anybody with a different point of you or different experience to you should be ignored.
I see no brand defensiveness in the thread - just a reasonable response to YOU makes usually outrageous and unproven claims that a significant number of actual owners know to be blatantly untrue.
Have to agree. You're won't get anywhere with finding out what you want, as there's a number of fellows sitting there on speed dial just waiting to derail your thread. You already have four or five of them piling on. Adding nothing to what you want to know, just full blown defense. Hey, but it's not them, it's us.
I think Leonard gets paid per defensive post. He must be doing very well for himself.
I'm getting accused of being defensive (ironically, in capital letters) but I have at least tried the competition and can remain objective despite owning a lot of nikon equipment. If he could only take off his nikon t shirt for five minutes?
Well, for me it was quite straightforward at-least, as I assume it was for many. The DPReview moderation were there to attempt to maintain focused and constructive discussions on the equipment relevant to the specific forum. Moreover they were trying to maintain a degree of civility and respect among forum participants. They were attempting to mitigate a lot of the nonsense often seen in internet fora, personal attacks, toxicity - many of the very attributes being displayed in this “unmoderated” thread here 😊. Think of it this way. If you were in-person in a room with other people discussing a topic, how would you like the discussion to go and how would you like to be treated by the others in the room? In return, how should you treat others? In the end it is about what makes us as people feel good. Propagating conspiracy theories, personal attacks and spreading toxicity does the opposite. Common sense. Never once did I perceive ulterior motives such as somehow being on the payroll to defend the virtues of x, y and z brand products. Most participants were just passionate and excited about the equipment they had invested heavily in and just wanted to share that in a positive, constructive way. On the occasions where the negativity and toxicity rolled into town it was naturally met with resistance that unfortunately seems to have further fueled the arguments of the prime culprits. Never ending saga…
I really don't know what you expect. All that anyone can do is give their own opinion based on their own experience which is what I and several other posters have done. You have (with one notable exception in replying to LanceB) so far completely ignored all the attempts at helpful responses and insights regarding the AF performance of the Z9 which you claimed to be interested in. Instead you have used every possible opportunity to repeat your criticism of the Z7 which, as far as AF performance is concerned, is no longer relevant. It seems that anyone who dares to give a positive recommendation for the Z9 AF is condemned as being "defensive". I find such comments quite bizarre and completely ridiculous but that's just based on my experience with the camera.
I know quite a few birders who own various Canon gear including the R5, 100-500, R7, R6, R3 etc etc. I also hear quite a lot of grumbles from time to time from the same quarter .. remarkably resembling the same grumbles I hear from some on these forums regarding AF issues. At the moment I'm pretty confident that the Z9 is up there with the very best in terms of AF performance. Still from previous responses you have given to LanceB etc I can see that you don't believe such claims so really the only way you will satisfy yourself one way or another is to get hold of a Z9 (or a Z8 if it turns out to be as expected) and, as I said earlier, try it out for yourself.
Had you been more specific at the start of this thread as to your particular interests in photography and exactly why you feel you need such a camera as the putative upcoming rumoured "Z8" (it seems that you are not interested in birding and wildlife for example, is that right?), and also what (and why) you feel your lens needs are then perhaps several people, myself included, with different interests, might have skipped bothering to reply and perhaps others with more relevant experience of your specific interests would have chimed in.
I have, as I posted earlier, tried other brands, and found for my work the Nikon lens range is the most suitable - together with not having any of the problems you claim exist - apparently with perhaps no more than 1% proof.
I know (being part of a Nikon Group and separately working alongside several genre Nikon shooters ) I am telling the truth from my hands on perspective.
This is not in my case being what you call "defensive" (possibly because you do not want to hear truth) - it is posting with truthfulness and integrity based on significant Nikon hands on experience, plus some Sony and some Canon experience.
You seem determined to defend your opinion that Nikon gets hardly anything right - seemingly significantly based on little more than "he said she told her brothers uncle" YouTube videos.
When a camera does not perform (as you allege) to a manufacturers standard there might be a 2% chance it needs a repair - and there is usually a 98% chance the person behind the viewfinder is not using it correctly.
Whatever you say TO. I don’t know what I don’t know and that is an undeniable truth, but I assume by that you mean you know some things that I don’t know? In that case I would ask, what is it I don’t know that you know? You have the stage here, so spill the beans and enlighten me/others.
I’ve noticed that a pain point for you seems to be your perception that others are controlling the narrative, getting threads not to their taste shut down and the like. Well, you seem to be confident that that won’t happen here, so yeah, enjoy it then. Perhaps you have found your place of true belonging? I don’t doubt that you have a considerable amount of photographic knowledge and experience to share, so why not let bygones be bygones and do that?
Then what's it called? What's your job title?
I'm interested in anyone that's used a wide spectra of equipment with regards to AF rather than users that tell me the z7 i and ii is great, it gets them all the shots they need and thats that. That doesnt tell me / us much if anything at all. That is what my OP said. Clearly very few have used all three brands; nothing has been said that is particularly show stopping but that's just that. If someone here has said they've used other brands and thought the z9 af was good ive surely noted it. If i missed someone then i've missed someone. I dont have to reply to everyone, nor do you. I've repeated my criticism of the z7i and ii just as many have repeated their defence of it. So fairs fair then. People gonna get 'upset' either way. It's the internet and it's 2023.
Doesn't look like a universal definition of common sense to me. There were very wide differences between DPReview moderators on what they considered to be 'focussed and constructive discussions', the type of interaction that they considered 'civil' and what constituted 'respect'. None of those is a matter of 'common sense'. They are all vastly influenced by culture and background, and indeed personality.
C'mon Leonard. Answer the question.
Actually, you know, there was nothing wrong with Primeshooter’s OP. As someone else put it, it could have been framed more specifically from the beginning and that might have prevented some of what followed - maybe? Primeshooter is clearly a sceptic and an “I need to see it for myself before I believe it” person, so that pretty much makes the written words of others less meaningful, even though he invited the discussion in the first place. So yeah, still trying to figure all that out, but nonetheless there seems to be a degree of reasonableness in his position, albeit seems to get under some folk’s skin. There were also some useful findings that came out of this thread as a result, such as the benefits of the Sony aperture drive setup for studio work, but not much else though to be honest.
As for what you are hoping to accomplish on the other hand, I must say that I am at a loss. Your convictions about certain others being on the Nikon payroll, wearing Nikon T-shirts, controlling the narrative, ganging up on you, the us versus them, the sheep and the goats, etc., etc, comes across as classic conspiracy theorist material. Maybe if this site allows, which you seem to be saying it will, you’ll finally get an opportunity to work this out of your system and move on…, or is that just wishful thinking? Maybe it’ll provide you exactly the platform you have been searching for all these years and you will be able to freely proclaim your beliefs to your heart’s content, unabated. Either way, I hope it works out for you and I do look forward to the times where I know you can contribute to reasonable discussions.
Was not intending to provide a universal definition of common sense. Is there such a thing? I am sure you a right that there were inconsistencies in moderation. I had no major beefs with DPreview that other seem to have experienced, so I’ll leave it at that. Also, I’ve spent nearly 30 years in a career working with multi-national organizations with colleagues from a wide range of culture, backgrounds and personalities, so yeah, I’m aware that what may seem obvious to me may be less so to others and that sometimes it's too easy to dish out judgement.
This is a thoughtful post.
But, for balance, I'd add the other side of the equation. There's been some posts on this thread that have out and out insulted anyone who has dared to mention another brand and how it might solve particular problems with emotional outbursts and with zero facts to back up what they are saying.
There have also been some posts from Nikon diehards that are factually incorrect (which I'm mulling over correcting). Tin hat needed!
Personally I think it's healthy to debate the pro's and cons of various systems. Like I said elsewhere, I'm more likely to be interested in input from folk who have used various systems to meet their specific needs and are able to discuss their findings with logic rather than illogical and/or emotional brand loyalty.
Especially if such brand loyalty ends up with insults or, frankly, telling blatant lies.
Fair enough. There are some culprits on both sides for sure, no doubt.
Just to put things in perspective.
