Nikon Z AF

I do not need your permission to "take the stage" nor do I intend to enlighten you. I merely pointed out that the mods on DPReview controlled one side of the narrative, the side that projected the Zees as something they were not. That gave fellows such as Lance and Leonard the opportunity to present the Z6 and Z7 as being a lot better than they actually were / are. I saw through the bs early on, so I had no intention of buying into it. No pain involved - I had a good rapport with moderation, all considered. And there are no bygones.

Condescension noted.

And this quote from Thom explains the Lances and the Leonards of the forums. Likely came with some side benefits. Assuming I'm understanding it correctly.
For me, I'd rather give someone my honest opinion, rather than sell my integrity for a few dollars or the use of some gear. YMMV

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Some of your post is fair, apart from the first point:

"This is a Nikon forum. Brand defenders have a right to be here, and I am glad they are not cowed by the attacks."

There's the problem. Folk ask about a particular issue, such as in the studio. Other folks answer with I've shot Nikon and another brand and found that another brand has a neat way of dealing with that issue.

That leads to attacks, but from the Nikon die hards only! So who is being cowed and attacked here?

I've just read the entire thread through again. The attacks are from a minority of Nikon die-hards and they fall under one of two categories:

1. Emotional insults without a single counter view.
2. Bare faced lies dressed up as facts.

It's curious why a small minority of Nikon folk are so insecure and defensive to the point of throwing any semblance of logic out of the window. It doesn't tend to happen with other brands.

I'd like to know who you think they are being attacked by. Aren't we all Nikon shooters here? And then you add this "It is perfectly valid to highlight specific faults regarding Nikon models", which if it's perfectly valid why would there be brand defenders in the first place.

IMO, brand defending borders on a sickness. Camera gear is just objects which we neither make or own the company that made it. Maybe some treatment would help the brand defenders. I love my Nikon gear, but defend it? Get real.

I agree with workarounds. I've said that before on DPReview. But to have to come up with a workaround for the Zee AF, where you need about six function buttons, assigning wide, 3D, dynamic, and whatever else the Zees have, to different function buttons, acquire the manual dexterity to switch from one to another to another to try and capture something that moves, is a bit much. And as far as I can tell, saying Nikon ML is "different" and has a "learning curve" is just an excuse for Nikon not knowing how the hell to describe how to use the AF in a manual, and leave it to the buyer to figure out. To do it with a D4s - AF-C, BBF, 9 pt, tracking off. Doesn't need a degree.

Yes, you've made claims without proof (and given that other people don't have the same issue, it seems the issue isn't the camera....), and got mad when you got called out on it, and saying really...uh...special things like "if the z7 is that good, why would people need a z9".

You've also made claims of things I've said, and been unable to quote them. Like pretending I think Nikon is perfect, which I do not.

I'm not sure you have any room to talk about logic, or facts, when you've provided neither. You keep changing the subject and moving the goalposts when called out, so please feel free to stop doing those, and provide evidence of your claims.

Maybe the next time this starts evidence will get provided, and we can work off an actual set of pictures as proof to diagnose issues. But unfortunately, that's not going to happen.

Cool. You can do the same happily on the z6/7/ii/9. Problem solved.

If you honestly think using different AF modes is too hard, I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe you need a point and shoot. It can nail studio shots too I imagine.

OMG you are like a stuck record! I explained earlier in this thread why Sony has a neat solution for studio photographers called Aperture Drive AF. This is a FACT. What more facts do you want? Are you suggesting it's all conspiracy theory and that this mode doesn't exist?

Yet again you are barging in with a pure emotional outburst and without a single counter discussion.

It's folks like you who turn things toxic.

The other member who threw his toys out the pram over this studio issue is the infamous Leonard. He used a different tactic. Instead of emotion he simply used bare faced lies. He probably thinks that went unnoticed. But im slowly sharpening my pencil to deal with that later.

In the meantime, I hope you feel better soon. I'm getting increasingly worried about you.

So here we go with moving goal posts.

Please point out where I denied that the different drive mode existed, or is a conspiracy theory, or whatever other nonsense you're going on about. I'll wait. Feel free to link the post where I said that.

I'm still waiting on you to actually quote where I said nikon was perfect, or anything else you've claimed.

I'll also wait for you to quote where I had an 'emotional outburst'. I've also provided as much proof as you have of the z series being bad/good in studio. I know of people who use them just fine, so the problem really isn't in the camera. Would you like me to link to portrait images taken with a z6/7? I can, I'm sure a simple google search will turn up hundreds, if not thousands.

It's funny that 'you're increasingly worried' when you get called out, and have to immediately change the subject because you can't back up any of your claims. I'm pretty calm, but it seems like you're the one with an emotional problem, and projecting it on everyone else.

Calling out people who don't provide evidence isn't toxic, and the people claiming it is often have an agenda to push, such as bashing a brand, or otherwise damaging a community.

Again, please provide literally any proof of your claims, with evidence. The burden is on you for making the claims.

Are you kidding? You must have your replies on auto response with some bad AI

No? The z series has the same af mode as well, which does the same thing as it does in the DSLRs. Group AF went to the wide s/l/custom size with regard to CSP (which is noted in the manual, in the event anyone is wondering).

I note your implying the z7 af in the studio is solid and the problem "isn't the camera". Interesting...that flies in the face of what anothermike is saying. Poor shame that Mike doesn't know how to work that Z7! Cryin' shame one might say...

Not what I'm seeing when anyone describes how they shoot wildlife, BIF. For one setup only, they start out in wide to get focus and switch 2 or 3 more times to get the shot. I've seen this repeated over and over by different people.

Focusing on a static subject isn't what I'd consider difficult, with any camera made in the last 10 years. Probably even 15.

People have been successful with studio images (would you like to me to do a google search for you and find a bunch of examples? I'm willing to), it's obvious that it's possible.

Going from there, we should look at why some people struggle. Given that the camera body and lenses are likely to be the same, even with changes in lighting (though I don't think it's that extreme so as to never have been replicated by anyone else in existence) the problem doesn't appear to be the camera or lenses actually being incapable of taking said images.

95% of the time, with anything, the problem boils down to user error, or misuse, and I don't see this as any different. I don't have a z7 to test things with at the moment, but I'm also not the one making the original claim that it's awful. So we're at an impasse as the people making the claim can't test different settings or options to attempt to rectify the issue.

I can shoot in one mode and nail plenty of shots all day long. Sometimes you switch modes to better enable the machine learning subject recognition when you have multiple subjects in one frame, or when you want to focus on a specific point in a group of them, etc. There's lots of reasons to do it.

It doesn't mean you can't stick with one and have success.

Both myself and @AnotherMike have highlighted where the Z6/7 series struggle in the studio. I chimed in with a fabulous feature that Sony have (which Nikon ought to be able to do via a firmware update)

I'll set down a challenge for you. There's a look I do in the studio. It suits men of a certain age with 'interesting lived in faces" It's an ultra low key look.

I use a single beauty dish with a grid. It's positioned at right angles to the models face and about 3 feet in front of them, and about a foot higher than their face.

I block out as much ambient light as I can, and using the modelling lamp on my powerful 600w strobe only a tiny amount of light falls on the models face, due to the position of the strobe and the grid on it.

I'm going to do a headshot using an 85mm prime.

I'm going to choose f11 to ensure tip of the nose the back of the ears dof.

You can turn up with a Z6II and Nikon Z 85mm 1.2S

I'll use my Sony A9II and 85mm Sigma 1.4 DG DN

You will struggle with even single point AF, your expensive f1.2 lens will be using f5.6 to focus and will be struggling for light.

In the meantime, I won't even need to switch to single point AF, I can stay in my default do it all tracking mode. I don't even need to put my focus point on the face, torso will do and it will still then pick up the face and eye.

Although we are both shooting at f11 you are trying to focus with f5.6 light falling on the sensor and I'm also shooting at f11 but with f1.4 light falling on the sensor.

I also have the advantage that my system has AF so advanced that I haven't even needed to switch out of tracking.

Would you like any more facts or will these facts suffice to shut you up on this topic once and for all?

PS.... this applies to you @LenShepherd who posted earlier that Aperture Drive was Sony making up for a deficiency in their system, whereas, in fact they provided a solution to ML that Nikon has no answer to!

Some get paid to do it. But the rest, yes, sickness (mental illness).

Count me 3. Sold my Z7ii because it was worthless under modeling lights. A real bummer because the image quality was excellent with the Art 40.

So you can't provide any immediate proof, but require a test that isn't going to happen for any number of reasons. Sounds about right.

And you're ignoring the rest of my prior message. As expected. Enjoy your salt. I'll be enjoying a nice dinner soon.

Thank you for coming up with an alternative well laid out strategy (NOT). Enjoy your dinner.....