• April 20, 2023, 5:22 p.m.

    I know of some fellow Sigma users, who are not satisified with current location of Sigma forum - I mean this "Other manufacturers" -> "Sigma Camera talk" thing. Hard to find on category page, not a first-class citizen and other complaints.

    What do you think, is there any sense to attempt to create entire category for Sigma? I would propose such structure:

    Sigma camera and lenses
    - Sigma/Foveon cameras and technology talk
    - Sigma FP/L-mount cameras talk
    - Sigma lenses talk

    But this creates few problems, (a) FP/L-mount will somewhat overlap with L-mount category and (b) will be there any need (and future traffic) for Sigma lenses forum?
    Your feedback and ideas are welcome!
    Please respond even when you consider current situation good enough - I will try to create poll too, it takes some time to get that right.
    /edit/ I can't add poll with more than two choices - you have to just respond in writing :)

  • Members 135 posts
    April 20, 2023, 6:03 p.m.

    'Sigma Talk' would be comprehensive of both cameras and lenses.

  • April 20, 2023, 6:12 p.m.

    You mean current logic then - one Sigma forum (among other camera forums) under Other manufacturers?

  • Members 39 posts
    April 20, 2023, 6:24 p.m.

    I think dividing it up into smaller sub categories will just dilute things, and I have no problem being in a 'Other Manufacturers' category. Sigma are a niche camera manufacturer, it's not like we're buried on another page, it is what it is.

  • Members 135 posts
    April 20, 2023, 6:25 p.m.

    No, NOT under 'Other Manufacturers' rather its own listing in alphabetical order.

  • Members 135 posts
    April 20, 2023, 6:28 p.m.

    I agree, not dividing it up. My suggestion as an alphabetical listing includes both lenses and cameras. Sigma lenses are not a 'nichr' product. I've read they are second only to Canon.

  • April 20, 2023, 6:31 p.m.

    OK, understood, noted :)
    Unfortunately this isn't exactly possible with current 2-level structure, thereby I'm asking and discussing about different possibilities.

  • Members 135 posts
    April 20, 2023, 7:03 p.m.

    Why not
    'Sigma Talk'
    as primary listing if you must have a "2-level structure"
    Then under that
    Sigma Cameras
    Sigma Lenses

    That gives a 2 level structure if you cannot have one forum called
    'Sigma Cameras & Lenses'

  • Removed user
    April 20, 2023, 7:47 p.m.

    Many years ago, I was in charge of a Company's databases. Arvo's request is not easy to address but I do understand his concern!

    Back then, I was a follower of one E.F.Codd, the Father of Relational Databases - not an easy subject at all !!

    scihi.org/codd-relational-database-model/

    www.tutorialspoint.com/e-f-codd-s-12-rules-for-rdbms

    www.seas.upenn.edu/~zives/03f/cis550/codd.pdf

    As Arvo says, this site's 'category' structure does not please everybody and may never do so.

    So it is that consideration should be given to defining a class for each category and then defining the relationship between classes.

    Personally, I can't understand why my Asahi Lens Co Takumar models aren't in the topmost category level ... (grin) ...

  • April 20, 2023, 8:31 p.m.

    I think the most controversial (confusing) part is not categories-forums relationship as data structure, but its layout (on categories page). There is ongoing topic about categories page, where some posters say 'it is worst possible mess' and others say that 'they won't visit dprevived anymore, if this page changes' :)

    What about Sigma getting own category or not - that is even not that important, locating Sigma (or many other) forums quickly seems more direct concern. Promoting Sigma to category would help only Sigma people, bigger problems will remain. Why I'm asking about this (and about some other things on other threads) - I'm trying to understand, how this site can be made more attractive to wider audience.

  • Members 142 posts
    April 20, 2023, 8:40 p.m.
  • April 20, 2023, 8:58 p.m.

    ArvoJ and I have been discussing this. It's not an easy "fix" for everyone.

    The site landing page is under review and we (the developers) are looking at different options.

    In the short term I have already proposed that Sigma could have it's own second level category with "Sigma Cameras" and "Sigma Lenses" as the actual forums. I was waiting to see whether that would garner further support - it appears it does. So, I may well implement that tomorrow.

    But it doesn't get over the fact that the landing page is complex and doesn't suit everyone. If you look at the landing page of DPReview, you wouldn't even know there were forums there (apart from one little menu item) and yet that is the main area where people communicate. But no-one complains about that because their bookmarks take them to their own forums that they like to interact with.

    Ours is different. We recognise and highlight the fact that there are LOADS of forums around, which (we hope) encourages people to interact across forums and open their horizons. This is (in my opinion) a good thing, but we need to get it looking better.

    It will change - we just don't quite know how just yet.

    Alan

  • Members 509 posts
    April 21, 2023, 9:49 a.m.

    Hey, the medium format forum doesn't even make it to the heights of Other Manufacturers, it languishes in the Miscellaneous category. Not that I mind, I know where it is.

    This site will evolve over time, I'm sure, but as someone who used to design intranet menu systems for a living, I know it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone, really. My UX experience taught me that when it comes to classifying, categorising, structuring content, almost every individual has their view on what counts as "intuitive". All the honest designer can do is go with what suits the majority and accept your decisions will certainly piss off a lot of people. C'est la vie.

  • Members 135 posts
    April 21, 2023, 2:04 p.m.

    David, I moderated a technology and investment forum (not photographic) for 7 years, so I know all about diverse opinions.
    Sandy Fleischmann at flickr

  • April 21, 2023, 3:10 p.m.

    I've updated the Sigma forums - hopefully, the users willbe a little happier.

    Alan

  • Members 62 posts
    April 22, 2023, 10:48 a.m.

    Thanks, Alan!

    Ideally each forum could be in multiple categories so a Sigma L-mount cameras forum would be under both L-mount and Sigma categories and one could read all things Sigma or all things L-mount in one place.

    I suggest one more change on top level: Rename Pentax to Pentax & Ricoh since they are so closely related and Ricoh is the last active brand (ignoring "Kodak") in Other/Legacy category. Ricoh even sorts right after Pentax, so they are easy to find together.

  • April 22, 2023, noon

    Ricoh already has some threads and posts. I would need to ask them if they minded moving under Pentax.

    Alan

  • Removed user
    April 22, 2023, 1:44 p.m.

    I thought that Pentax is owned by Ricoh, assuming that to be relevant?

  • April 22, 2023, 2:12 p.m.

    Ah, I didn't know that. [Or I may have done but forgotten].

    Let me think about it - and see if anyone from the Ricoh forum objects

    Alan