Re: A critique suggestion

Maybe you should follow your own advice and go back and read the points I have made because I answered that very question earlier this thread.

I went on to say that otherwise no-one is under any obligation to accept any judgements/opinions someone might try to impose on them.

Is this not correct?

Yes, It is nice, but tiring to be optimistic, and to hope your words have a positive impact. It was worth it for The Julia Margaret Cameron post by Tom, where a diversion to Wikipedia was enlightening.

Should I give up, as the pathway is getting a bit muddy?

That must be one of the most self revealing posts of all time. I've read your posts over years David, They show no growth whatsoever, apart from adding some new tech along the way. Like all arts, image appreciation is a journey. You need to build your experience and you need to be open to the experience of others. Images are the whole reason we take photos so building one's image literacy. Here's an article you might find useful. I hope you read it and think about it. I suspect you will get a lot more pleasure from your photography if you do. It's from the resources you will find listed on the web page of the Dprev site.
daily.jstor.org/how-to-look-at-art-and-understand-what-you-see/

Re your statements about "that's when conflicts arise." They only arise if you approach discussion from a "must win" perspective. You need to think about this too. Under a variety of names and at different sites you have approached forums in the same way. You are more interested in having an argument and massaging your ego than you are in discussion. You will answer as you always do that it takes two to tango. True. But how come then that the rest of us can have disagreements on points without it finishing up in "the dumpster" as yours do over and over with person after person? Either you know that your main aim is to have arguments and do the self ego massage thing or you really want to discuss photography. If when you do some honest self reflection, you find it is the latter, I suggest you start your own journey with the above article.
Re your previous post statement where you say it is untrue that you declined an offer from me to continue this conversation privately, you certainly did. You referred to my attempts to talk about how we look at images as "rambling." Remember now?
And do everyone a favour. If you decide to reply to this post, don't do what you usually do, which is take a section out of context, include all of this first so people, including yourself, can see what the actual discussion is.

It's getting muddy because it seems you and a few others are struggling to cope with people who have opinions differing to yours.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just like I and everyone is, but asking me questions that I already answered as shown in my previous post, indicates to me you are struggling to cope with my opinions.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one and move on because what I posted this thread is true, at least for me.

That is the approach you seem to be taking.

You are the op of several threads in the dumpster as well.

It is very easy for anyone to make things up and not provide links.

You're proving the points I made earlier.

What I have posted in this thread is true, at least for me.

You're being harsh on ncv and Mike.

Hopefully one day they will be able to cope with people who do not share their opinions.

Thank you for posting, as requested, your response with my complete previous statement.
Yes, I'll accept your statement that what you have posted is true at least for yourself.
Would you care to take up any of the other points? If not, fine.
A further thought. I'm not just exchanging views with Dan here, I think the article, found on the Dprev resources, I recommended to him is relevant to this thread and would be of value to many people here.

I also added some comments in between afterwards.

I have already taken up on the other points earlier this thread.

Which points are still outstanding?

As I said earlier to ncv, you are entitled to an opinion just like me and everyone.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am sometimes reminded, why I ditched vinyl records for the shiny little CD, when they came out way back in the Eighties.

Sometimes a a bit of dirt would get fixed into the groove and the the needle would relatedly jump back the bars of the song I heard a few seconds before. This went on infinitely, until I tired of hearing the same bit of a song, over and over again.

Yeah, the same thing used to happen to me 🙂

You've lost me here Dan. What you seem to be saying is that someone's ignorance is just as valid as another's knowledge?

Visual literacy has nothing to do with your ability to see an image and form an opinion of it. Like all other forms of literacy it's about being able to form ideas and communicate them effectively, (though no formal educational requirement is really necessary). Something that doesn't seem to be happening here.

I haven't referred to ignorance at all.

All I am saying is everyone is entitled to decide for themselves what they think of an image and whether they like it or not.

If they want someone's advice to help them make their own decision in the end, that's fine.

But no-one is under any obligation to accept other people's opinions or advice being imposed on them.

That's OK -- I'm about to do so. 😁

Here's the thing -- I'm completely ignorant with regards to art, and that includes photography. This is why I rarely critique people's photos -- I have no education in art and no vocabulary to explain why I like or dislike the photo. I mean, sure, I can say that the colors are "off" (too warm, too cool, or whatever), the contrast is too high or too low, the photo is too noisy, shadows are too dark/light, too soft/sharp, resolution too low, etc., etc., etc. with regards to my personal aesthetics.

However, I am also cognizant that not only are my aesthetics likely different from others', but that if I weren't ignorant with regards to art, many things that I see as flaws may not be flaws at all, but done purposefully. That said, I'm also of the opinion that when someone says that what I see as a flaw was deliberate, I am thinking it's more than likely the same as someone walking into a glass door saying "I meant to do that". 😏

But, for me, no worries either way. While I enjoy sharing my photos, in the end, the target audience for them is only myself. Thus, I don't feel the need to please others. I enjoy it when I do, but don't feel bad when I don't. If someone criticizes a photo I post, I take a look, and either agree, disagree, or feel ambivalent. If I agree, I try to reconvert/reedit the photo if that's a possible fix. Otherwise, I take note of it and hope I remember next time I'm shooting a scene where the criticism would come into play (fun fact -- no way, no how, will I remember unless I take the next photo within half an hour or so).

The only thing that annoys me with regards to criticism is when it is expected, either directly or implied, that I accept the criticism. 99.999% of people may agree with the criticism, but if I disagree, then I disagree. Of course, if so many agree with the criticism, that's also telling me I should make an effort to understand why they think that way. But you see, that word, "effort", is one of those trigger words for me that instills a fight or flight response. 😁

So, I don't mind people criticizing my photos. But, I do mind people taking exception to my disagreement with their criticism even if their criticism is right on target. Likewise, if I criticize someone else's photo, and they don't accept my criticism (e.g. "I meant to do that", "it doesn't matter", etc., etc., etc.), I just let it go. We disagree -- that's all there is to it. However, if I were posting a photo and comparing it to a photo one of the "greats" took (not that I'd ever, but...) then, for sure, I should expect to be pounded with criticism, and not get pissy because other people don't recognize that I'm just as good as the "greats" are.

With regards to the blurry portrait posted in this thread, I see nothing great about it. It's kinda cool, though -- I wouldn't criticize it for being blurry -- but nothing great. For example, here's a blurry photo that I took which I like a lot:

It was a snap taken from a moving car and I missed the focus. I processed the photo accordingly, and really like the result. But it was an accident that I made the best of. Now let's say some "great" photographer took a photo like that, but they did it on purpose, because they were going for that kind of look. OK, sure -- kudos to them -- I wish I had those skills, too, and, for sure, to get a photo like that on purpose does make one a "better" photographer than me (at least, in that regard).

But, I can't tell you why I like my photo, and I certainly couldn't tell you why I would try to take such a photo on purpose. That's where art education comes in, and, like I said, I don't have it. So if I see an "arty" photo like the one I just posted, I'm thinking, yeah, that was an accident, just like mine was. Even if they say it was deliberate because of yadda, yadda, yadda -- BS. It was an accident, it looks cool, and you're just trying to sound like you walked into the glass door on purpose. Then again, maybe you're Mr. Bean, and you did, indeed, walk into that glass door on purpose.

Oh! There's a whole Mr Bean episode right there - Bean buys a camera...

Thank you for your thoughts but it doesn't give me a reason to change my opinions posted earlier.

Of course everyone is able to make their own opinions. No one is trying to impose anything on you here.
Photography is clearly important to you. You spend a heck of a lot of time talking about it at all hours of the day and night. What I have been trying to suggest to you is that you would get much more pleasure from looking at photos and your contributions here would be more useful if you spent some time working on how to look at images. The reference I suggested to you doesn't tell you what you have to think. Your opinions may be/probably will be, way different to those of others. I know you know quite a bit about the tech side, I have been suggesting you work on the other side of photography, the images themselves.
In fact, in some of your responses in the Weekly C&C thread in the last few months, there have been some glimmerings that you have made some attempts in this direction. It's a path I think you would find personally rewarding.