• Members 1737 posts
    July 3, 2023, 6:22 p.m.

    I am interested in doing some high-magnification macro photography, which is something I've never done before. I've never worked over 2:1, and I plan to explore the region between 3:1 and 10:1. To that end, I've purchased a Zeiss S Planar 50mm f/1.6 lens. That lens was designed to be used for semiconductor photolithography in the 1980s. In the intended application, It operated with a mask set that was ten times the size of the image projected on the wafer, and was thus intended to be a 1:10 lens. In that application, it was capable of resolving about 1500 line pairs per millimeter. I figure if I use it backwards, I can get 10:1 magnification that will resolve about 150 lp/mm.

    Screenshot 2023-07-03 111510.png

    The lens has a significant limitation. It was designed to be used with monochromatic light of 436 nm wavelength. No color images with this lens, unless you love extreme amounts of longitudinal chromatic aberration.

    Good optics at these magnifications are usually diffraction limited. That means that the Q calculation that I talked about in this blog many years ago is a good way to find out when reducing the pixel pitch of the sensor will no longer yield better images.

    I created this spreadsheet:

    Screenshot 2023-07-03 160400.png

    At the top are the formulae I used. Q is the metric for determining whether the pitch of the sensor and the resolution of the lens are "balanced", which occurs at Q = 2 for a monochromatic sensor and is defined as the coarsest pitch which will produce no aliasing with a diffraction-limited set of optics. When used with a Bayer color filter array (CFA) sensor, a fudge factor needs to be introduced to account for the coarser sampling in each color plane. My usual compromise fudge factor for full color images is 1.7, but in this case I wanted to account for monochromatic blue light so I used a factor of 2.

    The lefthand column on the lower part of the spreadsheet is the effective f-stop, which at these magnifications is the nominal f-stop times one plus the magnification. The righthand column on the lower part of the spreadsheet is the coarsest pitch that won't show aliasing. With my Zeiss S Planar at 10:1, that's 1.74 micrometers (um), which is about half of the pitch of the GFX 100S I plan to use with this lens. So if my setup works and there's no vibration -- an issue at my new second-floor location -- the camera will be the limiting factor, not the lens.

    I've also included a row for my Rodenstock 105mm f/5.6 HR Digaron at 3:1. If a fudge factor of 1.7 instead of 2 is used, the camera is still the limiting factor. If we use 550 nm light and a fudge factor of 1.7, the critical sensor pitch is 2.74 um, still finer than the GFX 100S sensor pitch.

    Although I'm not using microscope objectives at present -- they typically don't cover the GFX 100S sensor, I included an f/4 objective used at 10:1 for comparison. Used with such a lens, the GFX 100S samples a bit more finely than it needs to.

    In the real world, there are lots of possible blurs sources other than diffraction at high magnifications: misfocusing, depth of field, vibration. So the above is probably somewhat overconservative. On the other hand, the Q = 2 calculation assumes optimal reconstruction, so it is slightly underconservative.

    Screenshot 2023-07-03 111510.png

    PNG, 778.4 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on July 3, 2023.

    Screenshot 2023-07-03 160400.png

    PNG, 51.1 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on July 3, 2023.

  • July 3, 2023, 6:58 p.m.

    Just curious (because I don't understand the maths) - what are you hoping to get out by using this lens - what are you taking pictures of and why won't a normal lens (even with extension tubes) do it?

    Alan

  • Members 1737 posts
    July 3, 2023, 7:33 p.m.

    At this stage, it's sort of a "if I build it, the subjects will come" situation. I've never worked at these magnifications before, so I don't really know what will be good subjects. I would like to get high-res images that fill the GFX 100S frame, and make some big prints. That means stacking. It also means fairly fast lenses. The Zeiss lens I'm using has the advantage of being designed for 10:1 (or 1:10) and being fast enough to get an effective f/stop of 16 at 10:1. It has the disadvantage of being monochromatic at 436 nm. The Rodenstock lens has about the same resolution at 3:1, and has the advantage of being full color.

    Of course, I'll have to stack to deal with DOF. I have several Cognisys rails for that.

  • Members 976 posts
    July 3, 2023, 8:03 p.m.

    Lots of subjects will come.

  • Members 435 posts
    July 3, 2023, 8:06 p.m.

    A 10:1 on a sensor that size would be impressive Jim. I used to do 16:1 on 35mm K25 with cross polarization on crystals. I might just do that again with the Sony 60mp sensor. Be interesting to see what you come up with Jim.

    Danny.

  • Members 2303 posts
    July 3, 2023, 8:07 p.m.

    Have fun Jim, its very adictive once you start. shame you cant shoot colour with the MF. why not use your nikon z9 gear on silent shutter mode with remote control shutter. i found making a table that weighs 200 kg out of solid hardwood the best for vibration control.
    my other thread got de-railed as usual but the results from final testing says that difraction on smaller sensors plays a big part of image degrade. my last post with the
    a74 crop mode and the a6300 could even detect diffration at 10 x. have fun you will love it. btw moving the subject is better and less vibration than moving a huge camera. just a tip .

  • Members 1737 posts
    July 3, 2023, 8:14 p.m.

    That's the approach I took with my Frankenscanner.

  • Members 1737 posts
    July 3, 2023, 8:16 p.m.

    I can with the Rodie 105 Digaron HR, but it's only corrected to 3:1. I don't know if you know the lens, but it uses moving elements to allow correction for magnifications between 1:3 and 3:1. I use it wide open.

  • July 3, 2023, 8:30 p.m.

    Do you know, what happens at say 600nm? Does resolution get nonexistent?
    If even 50% of it remains, then you could light your object with three different LEDs (not at the same time), focus stack separate color images and match them at the end. Like astrophotography in sugar crystal or similar :)

  • Members 196 posts
    July 3, 2023, 8:33 p.m.

    It is a pity about the microscope objectives not covering MF they are capable of some wonderful results . I managed to pick up a Mitutoyo M-Plan 10X APO used about 5yrs ago. Very challenging in use but fascinating results. I have not done any of that kind of shooting in a long time and the Mitutoyo was one of the victims of my recent gear clear out. Looking forward to seeing your results

  • Members 1737 posts
    July 3, 2023, 8:39 p.m.

    I don't know what happens at 600 nm. Should be easy enough to figure out, once I've got it set up. I plan to use a 1980s 4-inch wafer for testing.

    You have come up with a very interesting idea; I'll take a look at it.

  • July 4, 2023, 6:23 a.m.
  • Members 300 posts
    July 4, 2023, 7:11 a.m.
  • Members 2303 posts
    July 4, 2023, 7:38 a.m.

    so what FOV are you hoping for with MF ? is there any way of adding an intermidiate lens like nikon use for some of ther objectives to spread out the projected image. to cover MF sensor. im looking forwar to your experiments. half the fun is making the gear 😎

  • Members 1662 posts
    July 4, 2023, 7:44 a.m.

    Yeah - it‘s one of my favorite articles. Such a variety of different interesting lenses. I love many of them. For example the Dokumar 38 and 47 mm. Even though they‘re older and not as specialized as the S-Planar 50 mm this is about, they are pretty impressive and usable in visible light. The S-Planar 120 mm f/5.6 is a wonderful lens as well. Many of those lenses are a great testament to the precision at work at Zeiss.

  • Members 2303 posts
    July 4, 2023, 7:56 a.m.
  • Members 2303 posts
    July 4, 2023, 9:03 a.m.

    interesting that the pixel size on your MF are ony 3.78, smaller than my a6300 at 3.92 . shooting FF i can shoot a FoV of 3mm so i will be interested in you trying to shoot a mosquitos eye with MF 🤨 at 6mm working distance and 3mm FoV

  • Members 1662 posts
    July 4, 2023, 9:19 a.m.