The arguments thread

Replying to myself, directed at @TheDavinator I’m sorry for the snarky reply. We put one of our dogs down today and I’m obviously in a terrible mood. Sorry again.

Sorry to hear. Always terrible when you lose a pet. As anyone who has had one knows, they're a member of the family. And they just don't have a long enough life span.

Have to agree with this. We lost an otherwise still healthy cat that had turned 18 years old to cancer a couple of years ago, and all those years felt almost like a blink of an eye. It's enough to put anyone in less than ideal state of mind. At least us photography-inspired people have lots of photos to remind us what we've had and lost, even though it's bittersweet.

No harm done. I just thought it odd…nothing more. Please take care.

I had some minor communications with moderators. I followed your posts on MF and can imagine that your discussion with moderators was different than mine. We have different communication styles.

I'm very sorry to hear that. I mean, about your dog passing, that is.

Well, I think calling people out is fine and dandy, and don't feel any the less of myself when doing so. But just saying "you're stupid" is somewhat boorish. It's better to take the high road, and instead give them more opportunities to demonstrate it. : )

Not in the US, apparently. Or am I once again of making the mistake that I am not rich enough to call people a pedo without repercussions?

Bob is defending a core principal of this forum: every member deserves to be treated with respect. If Mako2011 registers as a member, he'll deserve respectful treatment the same as any other member. Speaking as a member, I would expect that of all admins, facilitators, and members.

Bob's also been clear that a mob mentality will not b be allowed to dictate policy on the site. The site's mission and core values have been discussed. Input was invited from all members. All comments were considered. The mission and values of DPRevived have been codified in the Terms of Service and User Guidelines.

Nobody's taking the membership's temperature every morning to decide which terms or values are to be ignored for the day. That's mob rule and it's no way to build an online community.

This request that an individual be singled out for treatment as a pariah based on accusations of past conduct on another site is inconsistent with this site's values. If a person is moderated on this site, it should be earned based on their actions here.

Also, whomever is asked to be a facilitator on this site will be subject to the same TOS and Guidelines as any other member. If someone goes afoul of the Guidelines, members can report their complaints. Ultimately, it's up to the admins to determine an appropriate response.

Bob and Alan are asking that we trust they will resolve complaints fairly and appropriately based on the TOS and values embodied in the Guidelines. I believe they've earned our trust on this. Let's give them a chance to show that our trust is well-placed.

@InkedMarie

Sorry for your loss.
Losing a pet that you have loved in never easy.

I've moderated a couple of large forums in the past, and one of those forums has been gradually dying. I gathered that different moderation principles should be applied based on the population of the forum and also the growth rate (positive or negative). Had I been carefully applying all the forum rules to that dying forum, it would have been long dead by now, ~2 years earlier.
The policy should be flexible (within lawful boundaries), and governance principles and historical examples don't always work. Forums and social networks operate on the top of Maslow's hierarchy, they're not countries who have to cover the whole hierarchy.

I don't have answers or suggestions on how this forum should be governed, just saying that real world historical examples aren't always a good guide to the forum policies.

In an ideal world that is all true.

However, from my perspective Bob is now coming across in his posts defending Mako2011 as either a voluntary or conned into spokesperson for Mako2011.

It certainly reflects even more poorly on Mako2011 because it shows he either has no interest in or is afraid to defend any of the claims made against him.

Of course that is his choice to make but it then increases the probability that most of the comments against Mako2011 are probably true.

Mako2011 having a spokesperson defending him does not reduce that probability for me.

Imo, a simple reply of "No" from Admin to the op and then locking the thread would have been the smart thing to do.

Letting the thread continue was always going to end up as it has and hasn't done Bob or Mako2011 any favours.

Doubt it -- he's dead. Maybe "thoughts and prayers" would be a better bet. : )

At this point I can't help thinking that the meme "lives rent free in your head" applies here, even though I view the meme culture as pretty shallow.

No, not shallow -- open ocean, actually:

Bill, respect is earned…it isn’t deserved. I get the intention of your post, but I thought this needs be mentioned.

I understand. I enjoy reading your posts in various forums and will continue to do so.

There was never any discussion with the moderator who has been harassing me for months. I was sandboxed months ago without notice, explanation, or reason; had posts randomly deleted, including the most plain vanilla uncontroversial posts; deleted posts were eventually posted after two or three attempts at reposting; posts would be unpredictably delayed for "moderator approval" for hours or days — except where an opportunity was seen to put me on the defensive over some point or another, then a post would be approved very quickly; I had to take posts I had written and present complaints outside of the forum and ask — why in the world has this post been deleted or delayed for days? — before they would then rapidly be approved and appear in the forum publicly; I had to make those inquiries by email, since I could only receive private messages and could not reply to or send messages at DPR.

It was at a minimum an ineffective and unproductive way of encouraging me to get out and not come back. It's still the same there today. It has every appearance of harassment to me. I know that I wasn't alone as I heard from others about their treatment in the same forum. Nothing remotely like it has ever happened to me on any other forums where I've participated. I'm fairly independent and wasn't looking to join a club, but to express my own views.

I had strangers contact me soon after I joined to tell me that I was going to be banned for failing to acquiesce to a moderator's viewpoint; but like I said, I was never banned as I don't engage in juvenile name calling if someone has an opinion different from my own. I expect others to have their own views and enjoy the fact that they do, as it makes for a more interesting discussion. But it's a big world and there are people who have a low tolerance level for those who fail to accept them as the final authority having the last word and will look to remove anyone casting shadows on their spotlight. I feel kind of sorry for folks with that kind of intolerance, but such is life.

In any event, this atmosphere is a nice breath of fresh air after my experience at DPR! Let's hope it remains that way!

I just want to make sure that exchanges like this are allowed:

I mean, deleting such posts is the same as destroying art. Then we know the person isn't a bot and/or got their response from ChatGBT. : )

That's not been my experience. They seem to be functioning a step or two below that much of the time in my view.