• Members 1737 posts
    April 15, 2023, 5:37 p.m.

    And because automated operations are more opaque to the user, and are likely not understood by a beginner. Does anybody really understand matrix metering on their camera?

  • Members 54 posts
    April 15, 2023, 6:43 p.m.

    I had a similar experience. We learned negative numbers in third grade. My family then moved and I started fourth grade in a new school, where I was marked down for answering a subtraction question with a negative number. I got something quite like "you can’t subtract three from two". Odd the things that stick in the mind many decades later.

  • April 15, 2023, 6:52 p.m.

    The problem being that there is a big shortage of teachers that can actually do maths. If you're good at it there are loads of career paths available. So school maths teachers tend to be either people who fell out of the bottom of the mathematics programme or people who have 'converted' for other disciplines.
    I have a slightly different story about my younger son, who is good at mathematics. He had a teacher in first school when he was 8 who fancied herself a bit. She had this challenge to her pupils to give her the initial numbers and solution and she would tell them what the mathematical operations were. My lad had been watching me doing some programming which included hex constants, and he asked me what they were, so I explained. His challenge to the teacher included recasting a number to base 7. Oddly, she was very angry and claimed he was cheating. Clearly he wasn't, because 7 was one of his initial numbers. I think her first goal was not teaching her pupils.

  • Members 132 posts
    April 15, 2023, 7:57 p.m.

    It depends on the particular beginner, but many just bought a “real” camera because they are looking to exercise more control over their photography than their phone was giving them (and frankly, phones often do full-auto better than “real” cameras, anyway).

    Matrix metering (who cares what it does so long as it works) along with Aperture Priority/Auto ISO/minimum SS (adding exposure compensation for fine tuning brightness later on), is pretty easily comprehensible (most folks) and offers real creative control in most situations with really just the effects of controlling the Aperture to worry about/play around with (and it’s arguably the most creatively important parameter).

    Initially focusing (ha ha) on just a single exposure parameter (Aperture) also allows you to see how the camera responds with complementary settings for SS and ISO which, it you pay attention, will gradually paint a pretty clear picture about how the whole process works without you having to worry about learning how to make sense of everything all at once.

    If you want to explore beyond this, great, but if this as far as you want to go, with a little experience and gradually acquired know-how you will still be able to shoot almost anything (and shoot it well) with this simple methodology (One many pros use much of the time).

    I see lots of folks being presented with “full manual” right from the get-go and being completely overwhelmed - with their phones still taking all the pics and their incomprehensible “real” cameras gathering dust. Some people are fine with jumping in on the deep end, but many are not. If you could hop in a car as a kid and easily learn to juggle using the steering wheel, the accelerator, the brake pedal, the clutch, and the stick shift all at once, and really want to understand all the inner “workings”, then this approach is probably for you but, for many others, semi-auto is the way to go, IMO.

  • Members 1737 posts
    April 15, 2023, 8:06 p.m.

    I think initial, ahem, exposure to full manual for a newbie should be in a controlled setup. Camera on a tripod, lighting fixed, subject immobile, no time constraints. I once spent a month taking pictures of eggs, which is kind of a classic, and learned a lot.

  • Members 1737 posts
    April 15, 2023, 8:08 p.m.

    I've never figured out precisely what it's going to to when the situation changes. It's like trying to reverse engineer a software program when you can't look at the code.

  • Members 1737 posts
    April 15, 2023, 8:10 p.m.

    At least I'm consistent. Our kids (and me, too) learned how to drive with stick shift cars. I taught them how to double clutch, but not how to heel and toe.

  • Members 509 posts
    April 15, 2023, 8:17 p.m.

    Over here, manual gearboxes are still in the majority, so almost everyone learns to drive manuals. It's usually some elderly person learning to drive late in life who learns automatic only. I guess with the increasing shift to EVs, automatic car learners will be on the increase. My daughter has just received her provisional driving licence and will be able to start lessons soon. I wonder what she will opt for.

  • Members 509 posts
    April 15, 2023, 8:20 p.m.

    I remember my first proper camera. I never could find the automatic exposure modes on that Zenith E....

  • April 15, 2023, 8:21 p.m.

    My problem with 'semi-auto' is that the automation is trying to do the wrong thing.

  • April 15, 2023, 8:27 p.m.

    I gave my D810 to my son. He was taking really nice images with a phone and a little 1/2.4" compact I'd given him. Really, he knew nothing about photography except how to see a shot and compose it, which is probably the most important part. So when I found I wasn't using the D810 much I asked him if he wanted it. He was very enthusiastic. So, I started him out in M + auto ISO. Explained what exposure was and why he wanted to maximise it. Went through DOF and motion blur, how to choose f-number and shutter speed and what to do if the ISO indicator went below 64. About an hour's tuition. After a week I asked him how it was going. He said he was taking better pictures than with the phone and compact, and he was right.

  • Members 284 posts
    April 15, 2023, 8:41 p.m.

    We start sounding so much like DPR...

  • April 15, 2023, 9:16 p.m.

    The 'self-proclaimed expert' bit always makes me laugh. I haven't see anyone here at all proclaim themselves to be an expert.

  • Members 2288 posts
    April 15, 2023, 9:31 p.m.

    Thats a great story. my daughter had a similar situation. when she was in Primary school 10 years old she couldn't figure out a maths question and its been to long for me to remember anything from school so i showed her a simple way and she continued on that path. when she got the Highschool 12 yold a maths teacher told her the way she was solving a problem was incorrect and wouldn't work for all situations, she blatantly told him he was incorrect ( she was dux at her primary school ) so he went home and tried to prove her theory wrong that night came back the next day and conceded the formula she was using couldn't be faulted and that he had never seen anything like it before.

  • Members 2288 posts
    April 15, 2023, 9:37 p.m.

    In Australia we are experiencing the same problem with maths and science teachers.

  • Members 1737 posts
    April 15, 2023, 10:55 p.m.

    I did kick over the traces a bit with the egg when I'd tried everything obvious

    _DSC2866-Edit-2.jpg

    _DSC2814-Edit-Edit.jpg

    _DSC2814-Edit-Edit.jpg

    JPG, 178.2 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on April 15, 2023.

    _DSC2866-Edit-2.jpg

    JPG, 77.1 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on April 15, 2023.

  • Members 221 posts
    April 15, 2023, 10:56 p.m.

    There are plenty of images, creators, and critics in this instantly and globally connected world in which we now find ourselves, perhaps an overabundance in one or more areas; depending on your personal viewpoint at any given time. I find art where others may not, just as others find art where I may not.

    Personally, I find a great deal of artistic expression in the work of photojournalists. Photojournalism is what drew me into photography. Like everyone else; my personal interests greatly influence my appreciation of various artists, genres, and creative works. I find artistic qualities and creative appeal in many commercial and illustrative works as well.

    Art is a personal expression and any experience of that expression is equally personal. Where we find art is where we find a personal emotional connection between the expression and ourselves.

  • Members 173 posts
    April 15, 2023, 11:46 p.m.

    People have different ways to approach learning. Some like to dive directly into the full complexity. Some will devise a methodology to logically step through all aspects of what is to be learned. Some will just start experimenting.

    All can be successful strategies.

    Full manual is a mode worth exploring, but how one gets there depends entirely on how one likes to learn.