• Members 3917 posts
    May 10, 2023, 4:51 a.m.

    So you are again running away when your statements without any evidence to support them is challenged.

    "What are you saying the camera manufacturers' engineers and/or scientists are saying that is all the same?"

    You have brought this same lame argument many times and the reply is the same. When you say it's a problem, you are speaking on behalf of yourself and probably others who do not properly understand what exposure* is and what does and does not affect it. You are certainly not speaking on my behalf because I disagree with your statement.

    I don't need to consider ISO to set my optimal exposure**. The camera can set ISO wherever it likes after I have set the exposure* as long as important highlights are not clipped. I set the final image lightness in post.

    That is total nonsense because as I posted earlier I can change the image lightness with ISO without altering the exposure*.

    I set the optimal exposure** and then let the camera set ISO where it likes as long as highlights are not clipped. I set the final image lightness in post.

    * exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open
    ** optimal exposure - the maximum exposure* within dof and motion blur requirements without clipping important highlights.
    *** under exposed - more exposure* could have been added with the DOF and blur constraints still being met without clipping important highlights.

  • Members 3917 posts
    May 10, 2023, 5:04 a.m.

    You are using the misconception that exposure is how light or dark an image looks. It simply isn't.

    Image lightness and exposure* are clearly two different things, not two names for the same thing.

    Exposure is not how dark or how light an image looks

    Fixed your misconception for you 🙂

    * exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open
    ** optimal exposure - the maximum exposure* within dof and motion blur requirements without clipping important highlights.
    *** under exposed - more exposure* could have been added with the DOF and blur constraints still being met without clipping important highlights.

  • Members 143 posts
    May 10, 2023, 5:28 a.m.

    Sigh, the decline is becoming a tank now.

  • Members 3917 posts
    May 10, 2023, 5:44 a.m.

    So that means that only 1% of them have got it right.

  • May 10, 2023, 6:27 a.m.

    Yes, that's a model. The other one is to work with camera stores, as Lenstip does. Or the Lens Rentals model. There are ways and means.

  • May 10, 2023, 6:32 a.m.

    Have you ever looked at how ISO is defined in the ISO standard for digital (12232)?

    If you want to start playing around with the word 'stupidity' you'll likely find that I'm much better at the art of insulting than you are, and here am not likely to suffer the same recriminations as DPReview. Shall we agree to stick to the technical side of things?

  • May 10, 2023, 7:02 a.m.

    Shutter + aperture combined are EV. Not useless, but not exposure either.

    Maybe I can give you a very simple explanation, which might help you work this out.
    ISO is a guide to setting exposure. Exposure means the amount of light (per unit area) at the sensor. When you set an ISO you are deciding on the exposure you will use. ISO is defined as 10/(exposure given by 18% grey object in the scene). Setting ISO programs the camera meter to centre at that exposure (so long as it can estimate what in the scene is 18%). Exposure is controlled by EV + scene luminance. If you can't change the scene luminance you change exposure by adjusting EV until the meter centres. Then you have the 'correct' exposure for the ISO that you set.

  • May 10, 2023, 7:03 a.m.

    Don't I know it - it gets me into trouble. Organisations prefer non-critical people.

  • Members 2303 posts
    May 10, 2023, 7:40 a.m.

    👍🍻🍻 finally agree, well written. Exactly how exposure should be explained.
    will give Dunno a new clipboard post. im so over the other one 😁

  • Members 2303 posts
    May 10, 2023, 7:50 a.m.

    I love the whole Functional Stupidity research, it wasn't meant to be an insult , sorry if it come across that way.

  • May 10, 2023, 7:59 a.m.

    No problem. It's a phenomenon that I've been up against my whole working life.

  • Foundation 1468 posts
    May 10, 2023, 8:09 a.m.

    When I look at the title of this thread I understand it to refer to the phenomenon that all threads here that have over 100 or so replies always degenerate into a discussion of exposure or ISO. I guess all fora have similar tendencies. For those that I frequent on harpsichord playing, their building and repair, the hoary chestnuts are wood types and what glue to use: 😁

    David

  • Members 3917 posts
    May 10, 2023, 8:12 a.m.

    What I have always posted is totally consistent with Bob wrote.

    Good to see you have finally seen the light and have given up on the misconception that exposure is how light or dark an image looks and that exposure is actually the amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open.

  • Members 2303 posts
    May 10, 2023, 8:16 a.m.

    Urea-formaldehyde (UF), also known as urea-methanal, so named for its common synthesis pathway and overall structure, is a nontransparent thermosetting resin or polymer. It is produced from urea and formaldehyde.🥶

  • Members 2303 posts
    May 10, 2023, 8:19 a.m.

    nt

  • May 10, 2023, 8:34 a.m.

    I thought the vsrnish strength and type also had an effect. 😃

  • Members 3917 posts
    May 10, 2023, 8:47 a.m.

    By striking out that text you are then posting nonsense again because earlier Bob posted

    to which you replied

    So you are in fact agreeing with Bob effectively saying exposure is the amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open.

    is totally consistent and accurate with what you agreed to with Bob.

    The other option is you didn't understand at all what Bob posted and so had no idea about what you were actually agreeing to 😃

    * exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open
    ** optimal exposure - the maximum exposure* within dof and motion blur requirements without clipping important highlights.
    *** under exposed - more exposure* could have been added with the DOF and blur constraints still being met without clipping important highlights.