• Members 182 posts
    May 9, 2023, 1:04 a.m.

    Just putting on my accountant's hat... not-for-profits should still aim to 'make money', not just cover expenses. A profit (surplus if you prefer) is needed because you generally need to invest in things, i.e. new software versions, servers, cloud space, equipment etc usually before that investment returns income to cover expenses. Building some capital reserves is the prudent thing to do. Start soon.

  • Members 1737 posts
    May 9, 2023, 1:16 a.m.

    Agree. An organization risks losing its non-profit status if it persistently runs a surplus. That said, a reserve fund is a worthwhile objective. I've recommended to another photographic nonprofit that they work up to having a years worth of expenses as a reserve.

  • Members 182 posts
    May 9, 2023, 1:38 a.m.

    Hi Jim - regarding losing NFP status, this is perhaps country specific?

    That doesn't apply where I live and work (Australia). The key difference is that in a for-profit organisation, the profit is returned to the owners/shareholders whereas in a not-for -profit organisation, profit is always retained by the organisation and re-invested. There are usually lots of other regulations about how a NFP must operate to retain its status but persistently running a surplus is not one of them. It's the only way to be sustainable.

  • Members 369 posts
    May 9, 2023, 2:14 a.m.

    Finally, somebody mentions YouTube. If
    DPRevived is going to produce content, video content should be in the mix. Start a YouTube channel, schedule a weekly Zoom to discuss the photography-related issues of the day and livestream it.

    It's another activity for the current members and may become a recruiting tool attracting new members.

    Give it a year. If subscribership grows, the channel may generate some revenue to help fund site operation and content creation.

  • Members 1737 posts
    May 9, 2023, 3:33 a.m.

    It is entirely possible that this is country specific. I question whether a continual surplus is necessary, or even desirable, for sustainability. A continual surplus would mean that reserves grow without limit. I don't see any need for, or advantage in, having reserves that exceed a year or two of expenses. After all, money in a reserve is money that, at least some of which received favorable tax treatment, that is not being spent on fulfilling the organization's charter.

    In the States, there are also regulations on how much commercial activity an organization can enjoy before its NFP status is questioned. I don't know about the UK, but that's something to look into before deciding what proportion of the revenues will be derived from advertising.

  • May 9, 2023, 7:32 a.m.

    My son does this with Twitch - he has a Star Trek weekly live stream and raises money for good charities. It is something we could consider.

    Alan

  • May 9, 2023, 7:59 a.m.

    In the UK there is a differentiation between 'charitable' and 'NFP'. We're just 'NFP' - we can generate as much cash as we can - it just has to be used for the benefit of the members and company aims. It doesn't give us tax advantages like would being a charity, but it does prevent us from simply being taken over or sold.

  • Members 509 posts
    May 9, 2023, 8:43 a.m.

    How many hard back books sell 4000 copies? How many millions of people still watch TV? Is the discrepancy a reason for giving up on book publishing? An audience of 5000 people is nothing compared to peak audiences in other media, but it is a substantial number of people in a voluntary community. I feel that the influence of social media audiences is distorting the sense of what is meaningful. You don't have to be a world wide social media sensation to perform a useful function.

  • Members 509 posts
    May 9, 2023, 8:55 a.m.

    Youtube and video sits in an interesting space with respect to text publications.

    Because it's popular, people think it's the medium that should be used. My feeling is different. To me, video offers something different when you take advantage of its features. But not many people seem to do that. YT is full of creators who think that sitting at a desk talking to camera is an adequate substitute for writing something down. It's not. In fact, it's a terrible substitute. Consuming talking head video content is appalling! These people shouldn't be allowed in front of a camera.

    Video should be used for when it is better than text/still pictures. I remember years ago watching an animated flash presentation of how a 4 stroke engine works and being struck by how being able to see all the multiple parts operating in parallel was so much easier to understand than reading a text description. That was because with a moving medium it is easier to understand things that happen at the same time or in very quick sequence than it is reading a linear text description. Likewise when fancy graphical techniques are used to explain science like astronomical events and so on.

    But for many other things, text is quicker and more useful because the reader controls the pacing, can easily skip back and forth, re-readthe tricky parts and so on. Watching someone slowly speak words that could be better written down is torture. I watch most video content at 1.5x.

  • Members 245 posts
    May 9, 2023, 9:10 a.m.

    I think a lot depends on the type of testing and the knowledge of the readers. I suspect that the type of testing that Jim Kasson or Iliah Borg might carry out would require a great deal of expensive equipment, a highly skilled technician and a very good technical writer to make the results meaningful to even the moderately knowledgeable reader. I like the type of testing carried out by Gordon Laing at Cameralabs. It doesn’t seem like it needs a vast amount of equipment, but it tells me what I want to know and is always my first stop. It would still be time-consuming, though! To gain more insight into the process, you might also consider a conversation with Roger Cicala who knows a lot about testing and who writes beautifully and intelligibly.

  • May 9, 2023, 9:28 a.m.

    There are lots of possible definitions of 'thrive'. In a niche market, you thrive by serving the niche market, if that's your objective. If you definition of 'thrive' is ruling the world, then you wont ever do it serving niche markets. As Jim noted, it's a mistake to think that thriving is about constant growth.
    As for my personal motivation - for the site here it was about providing a home for DPReview forum members, including me, before it closed. That was it. However, I had a project going on at the same time. I find myself increasingly intolerant of the rubbish peddled by the bulk of photographic web sites. It's very hard to find one that doesn't get the very basics of photography wrong. And if they get the absolute basics wrong, how can you trust them not to get everything else wrong? DPReview, mostly down to the work of Richard and Rishi, was an exception amongst the more popular sites. Amongst the more niche sites we have people who can be trusted to get it right, people like Jim, Tom and Thom. Jim and Tom are serving a different market from the average 'tog - people who are interested in delving deep into the technicalities of the subject. So for a while I've been musing on whether it's possible to produce a reasonably popular photographic website and set of resources that doesn't get basic things wrong. For me it seems natural to merge these two activities. The added advantage of doing the general photo website here is that we have a membership with really deep knowledge about the subject, and could collectively do a much better job that I could on my own.

  • May 9, 2023, 9:33 a.m.

    I don't think the required equipment is out of bounds - I've been costing things up for a while. As for the skilled technician and writer, we can find those amongst the membership, so not an issue.

    And if Gordon's already doing it, there's no point replicating it. I like Gordon's testing too.

    Yes, Roger is a star - but again, no point replicating what he does.

  • Members 245 posts
    May 9, 2023, 10 a.m.

    I wasn’t suggesting simple replication, just a look at the various methodologies available before evolving your own which is proportionate and affordable. There is also an issue of the credibility of the site carrying the review. I have recently been exploring reviews of the Leica 50mm f/2.4 Summarit. One review suggests that it is useless, simply a way for Leica to separate the credulous from their cash, another that it is close to the pinnacle of optical perfection. Obviously they can’t both be right and, as a newcomer to the Leica world, I have no idea of the credibility of the reviewers and so the whole exercise becomes pointless. Therefore there would be some reputation building needed to validate the content - once again, quite possible given the status of some of the contributors here.

  • Members 2288 posts
    May 9, 2023, 10:05 a.m.

    Maybe this will be closure for you. Exposure is the wrong word.

    Exposition (narrative)

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    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    For other uses, see Exposition (disambiguation).
    Narrative exposition is the insertion of background information within a story or narrative. This information can be about the setting, characters' backstories, prior plot events, historical context, etc.[1] In literature, exposition appears in the form of expository writing embedded within the narrative. Exposition is one of four rhetorical modes (also known as modes of discourse), along with description, persuasion, and narration, as elucidated by Alexander Bain and John Genung.[2]

    Exposition was used in the Pentax k1000 manual. 3,000,000 sold no other camera has come close.
    background information = asa/iso, artificial lighting, ambient light. ect

  • Members 3347 posts
    May 9, 2023, 10:39 a.m.

    If you use 'exposure' to say an image is too light or too dark then yes, it is the wrong word.

    Exposure is not how dark or how light an image looks.

    * exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open
    ** optimal exposure - the maximum exposure* within dof and motion blur requirements without clipping important highlights.
    *** under exposed - more exposure* could have been added with the DOF and blur constraints still being met without clipping important highlights.

  • May 9, 2023, 11:04 a.m.

    'Exposure' has had an established meaning in photography for getting on for 150 years. It was formalised by Hurter and Driffield as H = Et (modern notation) about 120 years ago. That's the way it's been being used by everyone who actually knows the basics of photography for all that time. The fact that you, and others that don't know their basics and choose to dispute it is one reason what we need a set of good articles on the basics and why we need some editorial control by people who actually know something.

  • May 9, 2023, 11:07 a.m.

    Without trying to be big-headed about this, I think I likely know more about it than those people do. I've consulted on the set up of a photographic testing lab before, and I've had a career in which I've designed various types of scientific instrument. I wouldn't be in a position to criticise their methodology unless I had some idea of how to do it myself.
    Maybe that makes me a 'self appointed expert', but the truth is that I've also been appointed as an expert by others from time to time.

  • Members 71 posts
    May 9, 2023, 12:33 p.m.

    Right. Also don't underestimate how much time and energy would be involved with the camera company contacts (which will often happen on their own time schedule), as well as verifying what is published is the correct data in the first place (e.g. copy editing, which is tough). If just testing every camera—there were 17 in 2022—were being done with just one person, you'd still need additional resources to help them. Just dealing with receiving/returning all that gear takes a lot of time. And note that we're not talking about lenses yet ;~).

    Also, don't underestimate the one thing that both dpreview and imaging-resource both provided: downloadable files and online comparisons. The former takes bandwidth that costs money, the latter takes online coding.