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Two Sensors with a multiplication factor of 2.6x and 2.7x

Maoby
April 10, 2023
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  • link
    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    April 10, 2023, 7:54 p.m. April 10, 2023, 7:54 p.m.
    link

    Kodak DCS 410 sensor (9.2x13.8 mm) 2.6X factor
    Nikon 1 J5 sensor (8.8x13.2 mm ) 2.7X factor

    By taking some photographs with my Kodak DCS 410 for IliahBorg (Here)
    I took the opportunity to finish, to end a pending comparison

    Here the small sensors called 1ā€ with a multiplication factor of 2.6x or 2.7x compared to the famous 24x36 mm
    The two cameras with a focal length of 50mm are equivalent to 130 and 135mm respectively

    In short, a comparison between two generations of cameras, The Kodak DCS 410 (1996) and the Nikon 1 J5 (2015)

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807324056_9f3c8e421e_k.jpg
    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) / Nikon 1 J5 (2015)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    Kodak DCS410 (1996)
    1.54 MP sensor (1524x1012)
    Price: $8,000.00 USD
    Taken with the AF 50mm f/1.8 D Nikkor
    (multiplication factor of 2.6)
    ISO100

       __________________
    

    Nikon 1 J5 (2015)
    21 MP sensor (5568 x 3712)
    Price: $500.00USD
    Photos were taken with the: Nikkor AF-S 50mm f/1.8 G
    (multiplication factor of 2.7) CX
    160-6400 (12800) ISO

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807488544_428b9eaa1c_k.jpg
    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) 50% / Nikon 1 J5 (2015) 50%
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807703553_f075170891_k.jpg
    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) 100% / Nikon 1 J5 (2015) 26% Prorata
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    For those who might be interested, I have here all the photos, more than 90

    pieroc91 likes this.

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    StanDisbrow
    Members 498 posts
    April 11, 2023, 11:40 a.m. April 11, 2023, 11:40 a.m.
    link

    Hi,

    That 410 works better than I remember! :)

    Stan

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    April 11, 2023, 12:51 p.m. April 11, 2023, 12:51 p.m.
    link

    The DCS 410 is also getting old, like all of us šŸ™„
    It's already beautiful that it can still work after 27 years!

  • link
    StanDisbrow
    Members 498 posts
    April 11, 2023, 4:08 p.m. April 11, 2023, 4:08 p.m.
    link

    Hi,

    Kodak must have used good capacitors. In my experience, that's usually the component
    most likely to crap out and kill things electronic. So I call em CRAPacitors! :P

    Other than batteries, of course. Battery cells are already on the road to ruin about the
    time they leave the manufacturing line. But, then, they are all using corrosive
    chemicals by their very nature.

    All I have here Kodak wise these days is a 520c and a 760c. Both still working,
    but then also newer than the 410.

    Stan

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    April 11, 2023, 4:27 p.m. April 11, 2023, 4:27 p.m.
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    Yes, I get much better results with these last two

    Kodak DCS 520 (1998) / Canon EOS-1D Mark IV (2009)

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/51761264878_692234d424_k.jpg
    Kodak DCS 520 (1998) / Canon EOS-1D MK IV (2009)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    Kodak DCS 760 (2001) / Canon EOS-1D (2001)

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/51558217410_9fd7882031_k.jpg
    Kodak DCS 760 (2001) / Canon EOS-1D (2001)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    I had read that the Kodak DCS 410 was a cheap version of the DCS 420 šŸ—£

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    pieroc91
    Members 52 posts
    April 11, 2023, 5:53 p.m. April 11, 2023, 5:53 p.m.
    link
    @StanDisbrow has written:

    Hi,

    Kodak must have used good capacitors. In my experience, that's usually the component
    most likely to crap out and kill things electronic. So I call em CRAPacitors! :P

    Other than batteries, of course. Battery cells are already on the road to ruin about the
    time they leave the manufacturing line. But, then, they are all using corrosive
    chemicals by their very nature.

    All I have here Kodak wise these days is a 520c and a 760c. Both still working,
    but then also newer than the 410.

    Stan

    Hi Stan! when i first talked to @Maoby and told me he had a working DCS100 I asked for the caps since mine had the tantalums all shorted, I had to replace every single one of them.
    And to my surprise he told me his was completely original. Very surprising actually.

  • link
    StanDisbrow
    Members 498 posts
    April 11, 2023, 11:20 p.m. April 11, 2023, 11:20 p.m.
    link

    Hi,

    I have had the same experience. Tantalums from brand X go bad in a few years while those
    from brand Y never fail even after 30 years.

    And when we make things, we get the parts inside of tape on a reel, and so can make a lot of
    boards before we change the reel. And then, is that a reel of brand X again, or are we rotating
    our stock over to brand Y?

    Sigh.

    We always have at least two suppliers of everything.

    Stan

    Who doesn't have his signature here....
    Amateur Photographer
    Professional Electronics Development Engineer

    pieroc91 likes this.

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    April 12, 2023, 12:18 a.m. April 12, 2023, 12:18 a.m.
    link

    See here the difference in quality between the two cameras, both date from the same year 1994

    Kodak AP NC2000 Pro (1994) / Kodak DCS 420 (1994)

    live.staticflickr.com/7906/33716235158_02af082f28_k.jpg
    Kodak NC2000 Pro (1994) / Kodak DCS 420 (1994)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    live.staticflickr.com/7872/46677634545_01c9e88bb7_k.jpg
    Kodak AP NC2000 Pro (1994) / Kodak DCS 420 (1994) 100%
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    live.staticflickr.com/7821/46677569245_2f0d6738a4_k.jpg
    Kodak AP NC2000 Pro (1994) / Kodak DCS 420 (1994) 100%
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    Kodak AP NC2000 $18,000.00 USD
    Kodak DCS 420 $ 11,000.00 USD

    pieroc91 likes this.

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    April 15, 2023, 8:58 p.m. April 15, 2023, 8:58 p.m.
    link

    Kodak DCS 410 (1996)

    I have grouped here the five comparisons made with my Kodak DCS 410
    Between 2016 and 2023

    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) / Nikon D600 (2012)
    www.flickr.com/photos/maoby/albums/72157669080808992

    Kodak DCS 460 (1995) / Kodak DCS 410 (1996)
    www.flickr.com/photos/maoby/albums/72157704023152432

    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) / Kodak DCS 720X (2001)
    www.flickr.com/photos/maoby/albums/72157705066801222

    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) / Nikon D810 (2014)
    www.flickr.com/photos/maoby/albums/72157720201625373

    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) / Nikon 1 J5 (2015)
    www.flickr.com/photos/maoby/albums/72177720307390560

    Enjoy šŸ˜‡

    pieroc91 likes this.

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    June 29, 2023, 12:46 p.m. June 29, 2023, 12:46 p.m.
    link

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807324056_60efed3273_b.jpg
    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) / Nikon 1 J5 (2015)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    www.flickr.com/photos/maoby/albums/72177720307390560

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807279514_69a54aa8f1_b.jpg
    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) / Nikon 1 J5 (2015)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807492004_e66e11736a_b.jpg
    N°09 Kodak DCS 410 (1996)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807255621_105601cb8d_b.jpg
    N°09 Nikon 1 J5 (2015)
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    live.staticflickr.com/65535/52806700402_25bf848d69_b.jpg
    Kodak DCS 410 (1996) 50% / Nikon 1 J5 (2015) 50%
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

  • link
    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    Aug. 28, 2023, 7:29 p.m. Aug. 28, 2023, 7:29 p.m.
    link

    The Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM ART turns into a 364.5mm f/1.8 on my little Nikon 1 J5 😁

    live.staticflickr.com/866/41761102801_601712d553_k.jpg
    135mm sigma / Nikon j5
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

  • link
    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    Aug. 29, 2023, 12:17 p.m. Aug. 29, 2023, 12:17 p.m.
    link
    @StanDisbrow has written:

    Hi,

    That 410 works better than I remember! :)

    Stan

    If you're referring to the greater acuity as seen especially on the edges of the letters in the 100% vs 26% comparison, that may be completely due to the differences in resampling between the two images, as presented. 385% vs 100% would be quite different, I think. So would 577% vs 150%, where neither benefits from the false sense of "acuity=detail" detail at 100%.

    100% vs 25% with Nearest Neighbor would easily give the acuity award to the Nikon, but would also be quite aliased. With 4x4 binning, the Nikon should be more acute, but not as aliased as, and less noisy than, Nearest Neighbor.

    There is just too much illusion created in arbitrary resampling for viewing on coarse-pixel monitors. There is, unfortunately, no unbiased freedom of arbitrary resampling. Resampling is almost always part of the reason that things look the way they do, detail-wise; it is not just the capture that determines this.

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    Aug. 29, 2023, 12:28 p.m. Aug. 29, 2023, 12:28 p.m.
    link
    @Maoby has written:

    The Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM ART turns into a 364.5mm f/1.8 on my little Nikon 1 J5

    Not really. You can't claim equivalence without scaling the f-number, too.

    It is either a 2.7x crop of 135/1.8, or a crop equivalent to 364.5/4.86 on a FF. You can't mix them. They are married (with no possibility of divorce) by the pupil size of 75mm.

    TonyBeach likes this.

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    Aug. 29, 2023, 2:25 p.m. Aug. 29, 2023, 2:25 p.m.
    link
    @JohnSheehyRev has written:
    @Maoby has written:

    The Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM ART turns into a 364.5mm f/1.8 on my little Nikon 1 J5

    Not really. You can't claim equivalence without scaling the f-number, too.

    I was sure that some joker would come and talk to me about opening equivalence.
    Sorry, my Sigma frames as 364.5mm and its aperture remains at f/1.8
    The angle of view varies, but not the aperture for the amount of light.
    I'm a little tired of this so-called photographer, who likes to repeat the same nonsense to make himself interesting.

    live.staticflickr.com/962/27897771158_bff91c64cb_k.jpg
    Le petit curieux
    by Marc Aubry, sur Flickr

    The Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM ART becomes 364.5mm f/1.8 on my little Nikon 1 J5

    ArvoJ and davidwien like this.

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    Aug. 30, 2023, 3:51 p.m. Aug. 30, 2023, 3:51 p.m.
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    @Maoby has written:

    Sorry, my Sigma frames as 364.5mm and its aperture remains at f/1.8

    Those are two different contexts, though. Angle of view is not focal length. When you say a focal length and an f-number together for the same gear, it is like saying that you sold your old house and bought at new one for half as many dollars, without telling anyone that they were in different countries with an exchange rate that is far from 1:1.

    "1.8" is not an aperture; "f/1.8" is an aperture, but only when you replace the "f" with the true focal length. That true focal length is 135mm, so the aperture is 75mm, and yes, that aperture doesn't change with different sensor sizes, but different sensor sizes affect total light captured with a given exposure.

    Do you, or do you not, agree that lens on a 1" sensor gives similar imaging to a FF camera with 364.5mm at f/4.86, and not f/1.8?

    TonyBeach likes this.

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    Deleted Removed user
    Aug. 30, 2023, 4:30 p.m. Aug. 30, 2023, 4:30 p.m.
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    @JohnSheehyRev has written:
    @Maoby has written:

    Sorry, my Sigma frames as 364.5mm and its aperture remains at f/1.8

    Those are two different contexts, though. Angle of view is not focal length. When you say a focal length and an f-number together for the same gear, it is like saying that you sold your old house and bought at new one for half as many dollars, without telling anyone that they were in different countries with an exchange rate that is far from 1:1.

    "1.8" is not an aperture; "f/1.8" is an aperture, but only when you replace the "f" with the true focal length. That true focal length is 135mm, so the aperture is 75mm, and yes, that aperture doesn't change with different sensor sizes, but different sensor sizes affect total light captured with a given exposure.

    Do you, or do you not, agree that lens on a 1" sensor gives similar imaging to a FF camera with 364.5mm at f/4.86, and not f/1.8?

    A reference about equvalence: www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/equivalence/index.html

    I make it 368mm at f/4.91 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

    šŸ˜‰

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    JohnSheehyRev
    Members 550 posts
    Aug. 30, 2023, 5:03 p.m. Aug. 30, 2023, 5:03 p.m.
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    @xpatUSA has written:
    @JohnSheehyRev has written:
    @Maoby has written:

    Sorry, my Sigma frames as 364.5mm and its aperture remains at f/1.8

    Those are two different contexts, though. Angle of view is not focal length. When you say a focal length and an f-number together for the same gear, it is like saying that you sold your old house and bought at new one for half as many dollars, without telling anyone that they were in different countries with an exchange rate that is far from 1:1.

    "1.8" is not an aperture; "f/1.8" is an aperture, but only when you replace the "f" with the true focal length. That true focal length is 135mm, so the aperture is 75mm, and yes, that aperture doesn't change with different sensor sizes, but different sensor sizes affect total light captured with a given exposure.

    Do you, or do you not, agree that lens on a 1" sensor gives similar imaging to a FF camera with 364.5mm at f/4.86, and not f/1.8?

    A reference about equvalence: www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/equivalence/index.html

    I make it 368mm at f/4.91 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

    šŸ˜‰

    We're almost always starting with rounded numbers, so there must be a small amount of play in evaluating the numbers. The "600/6.3" of my Tamron 150-600 G1 zoom is really something like "578/6.43" at infinity distance, IIRC. That's a difference in calculated pupil of 95.24mm vs 89.89mm, a factor of 1.0595:1.

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    Maoby
    Members 1600 posts
    Aug. 30, 2023, 7:31 p.m. Aug. 30, 2023, 7:31 p.m.
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    @JohnSheehyRev has written:
    @Maoby has written:

    Sorry, my Sigma frames as 364.5mm and its aperture remains at f/1.8

    Those are two different contexts, though. Angle of view is not focal length. When you say a focal length and an f-number together for the same gear, it is like saying that you sold your old house and bought at new one for half as many dollars, without telling anyone that they were in different countries with an exchange rate that is far from 1:1.

    "1.8" is not an aperture; "f/1.8" is an aperture, but only when you replace the "f" with the true focal length. That true focal length is 135mm, so the aperture is 75mm, and yes, that aperture doesn't change with different sensor sizes, but different sensor sizes affect total light captured with a given exposure.

    Do you, or do you not, agree that lens on a 1" sensor gives similar imaging to a FF camera with 364.5mm at f/4.86, and not f/1.8?

    Let me give you a simple example.
    If I take a photo with my D810 and my 135mm f/1.8
    And I take a second photo with my D810, in APS-C format with my 135mm ( x1.5 ) = 202.5mm still at f/1.8
    My f/1.8 doesn't magically change the aperture when I shoot APS-C with my D810.

    It's the same here with the Nikon 1 J5 135mm ( X2.7) = 364.5mm still at f/1.8
    If you don't understand or don't want to understand, there's nothing I can do for you.

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