Not a thread to argue about the definition of beginner. Just a thread to state what you think a beginner is when considering this sub forum. What kind of audience do you think it’s meant for?
I’ll refrain from posting my thoughts for now. Just curious what others think of. Consider what they might actually be looking for when they come to a place like this.
I have a feeling we are on the same wavelength here. ;-)
What camera should I get to take photos of ............
What lenses should I use for ...............
I'm on a limited budget but would like to take ............
What settings should I start with when taking ...........
I want to step up from a bridge camera to take ..........
What lens and settings should I use for the moon or ........
I want to try film, what's the best ...........
Can I take .......... with a ...........
Help, my photos are dark but I can't understand all that waffle in those threads next door ........
Etc, etc, etc ..............
Something along those lines ;-)
Danny.
I love this one. I might replace the word waffle with something else though 😁😁
And now - back to the topic.
Alan
I might add beginner questions like:
Why does changing aperture change what's in focus and what isn't?
How slow can I have the shutter speed?
What's a bridge camera and should I worry about it?
Alan
Will a decicated camera take better pictures than my iPhone-xxx ?
A fresh bit of countryside to which bloviators rush and reengage their long standing hissy fits with each other.
I've seldom encountered so many poor teachers in one place as in the old DPR's "Beginners" forum. But perhaps having sold cameras to the public makes me especially aware of how utterly lost are beginners with all the jargon, bias and assumptions blasting them from such fulminating fonts of knowledge.
Oh trust me I thought long and hard about that mate. I still have a few in my head now, but I must refrain ..... I must refrain ....... blow ....... I must refrain ...... hards ..... I must refrain! .... DOH !!
I am just glad that when I was a beginner, I started out with a Yashica rangefinder with a broken light meter, a Weston Light meter, John Hedgecoe's, "Manual of photography" and a roll or two of Kodachrome. No internet, with a thousand different opinions and no cameras with a thousand modes to confuse me.
In a way, I believe it is very difficult being a beginner now in this confusing wold.
The most frequent question I hear is why there are so many buttons and modes on the cameras and what those buttons do?
In ideal world beginner would ask - how to make my images look better? Then one could start answering with explaining light, composition etc.
But yes, in current forum most (if not all) questions would be about camera(s) technical parameters or about choosing best camera.
Maybe a series of simple lessons about focal length, aperture, shutter speed and some other basic parameters would be helpful. I mean simple lessons, not PhD grade ones :)
Another series about composition and other artistic values would be welcome too - although good lessons about such things are hard to write (for example I liked 'Landscape Composition' articles by Erez Marom on dpreview).
This is already good question - many people just search for 'intelligent auto' kind of mode (if that is not set by manufacturer) and do not ask anything further.
While it's a good question, those who ask it are often irritated. Also, based on my conversations, they are asking how they don't have all those buttons on their phone cameras.
Beginners come in all shapes and sizes.
Some may know very little about anything.
Others may be real experts in some aspects of photography, while still wanting to know the answer to a "beginner's question" on a topic in which they have no personal experience.
I was going to say a beginner is a cellphone user with their first brand-new camera. They may not even know imaging sensors and lenses exist.
But then, in an attempt at random sampling, I looked at the first ten posts from pg 5 (~Feb 2023, before the news hit the fan) of the DPReview Beginners Question forum:
Now I would say a beginner is just anyone who needs help with any topic they're unfamiliar with. I'll suggest the pinned post "Answers to common questions." is completely disconnected from real-life common BQ questions. I'll be blunt - I seriously doubt its relevance in the BQ forum. It may have the potential as a valuable FAQ for reference.
My personal favorites were the questions from researchers that had complex requirements for their experimental apparatus (Before retirement, my job was to answer these kinds of questions!). Some of the questions from the dentists and plastic surgeons were pretty challenging too.
A beginner today is most likely someone who takes photos with a cell phone and then acquires a "proper" camera -- quite often as a present. Even modestly priced cameras have lots of buttons today, and the only help the manufacturer gives the new user is a manual that in most cases does not explain things very clearly, or in a well-ordered manner. The manual that came with the Canon RP is a good example: quite useless.
So the user wants to know what all the buttons do, and experimenting with them is quite likely to give worse results than he had before.
Sample possible questions:
-- Why should I choose f/8 rather than f/1.8?
-- Does 1/200 give better pictures than 1/800?
-- What is this ISO dial for?
-- Why are some things out of focus?
-- why do my pictures come out too dark/too light?
etc.
But just like little children are not ready for the full answer to the question "where do babies come from?", beginning photographers need simple answers that they can build on later. A recommended book is also helpful: it should also be at the right level.
The key to understanding this, as in all teaching. is to put one's self into the same mindset as the beginner.
David
I have often thought to myself that the worst mistake a beginner photographer can make is to ask a question in the Beginners' Question forum.
Steve Thomas
Truth is hillarious more often than not. :-D
I must say that while solid half of the beginners forums (on original DPR anyways) went downhill, there was some good help too. One has to be "online pro" to filter through the nonsense. Then it is usable. I also went there for some answers, because even though being very advanced on some topics, and pro on some other topics, it was a beginner question in the field I did not know. So why not box myself into the right category. It WAS more welcoming place compared to "pro´s" places where I would be chewed out even for the question alone. So that´s that. You can´t win. You will get one slap from each side no matter where you enter. It´s funny, and after getting used to it, It´s somehow "charging me" for good action and arguments. Don´t let yourself get beaten by stupidity.
"the worst mistake a beginner photographer can make is to ask a question in the Beginners' Question forum."
It truly was cringe-worthy to see an earnest, innocent noob wander into that space. Wanted a drink of water; got converging fire hoses.
