What's going on with Nikon?

i) None of the proponents of a 'Z8' seem to agree on what it is.
ii) 'mini Z9' means almost nothing at all.
iii) Is there room in the Nikon range for a $4k+ camera when the Z9 is only $5.5k?
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I think the answer to iii is, how many $5.5K cameras don't they sell because of a lighter but otherwise identical "Z9" in a $4K Z8?
Revenue #Fail.

When I see "The Photographer's" I know that's you. :) :)

Just a smuck piggybacking off your hard work.

On your first point many also take the opposite view - though I did not sell my D850 until after getting the Z9.

I am not sure I understand your second point.
There are sites like backcountrygallery where taking a balanced view is a big part of site culture.

My view is moderators are often quite "tame" and if someone regularly gets banned or deleted there is a good reason that most readers and posters would support.

Off topic - a few of my posts at dpreview involved input by a moderator.

Shameless plug much?

Over the course of a decade, I've only had posts deleted from threads you were involved in. Strange coincidence, don't you think?

Could you two possibly take your pissing contest to a private room? Housekeeping is really gonna have a fit when they see what they have to clean up here:

Cheers, y'all!

It is possible that a Zf like camera will be the update for Z6, it kills two birds of price point and something attractive

Saving named settings files is solved by a new iOS/Android product, Focal Snapshots (see: blog.reikanfocal.com/2023/04/snapshots-for-ios-android-available-now/).

Thank you for linking this Thom! I hesitated on buying the FoCal desktop because I only wanted the settings capability. This is exactly what I need.

Agree. They have a hole in their lineup. Even Sony has the a9 for birding for those who can’t handle the large A1.

I visit BCG occasionally and also watch Steve Perry's videos to glean new ideas for my wildlife photography. However, BCG is very much a Nikon (and Sony) forum and they're biased in that regard (and also tend to be ignorant of other systems). For example Steve and some other members have made statements like "if the A1 cannot capture it, no camera can". This is objectively false. The OM-1 for instance has a 50 fps rate with full autofocus and with this burst rate and Bird AI, it can (and does) get shots that an A1 or Z9 would miss.

This has been borne out in tests by Mirrorless Comparisons, Mike Lane and other objective (i.e. not biased toward one system) testers. There are also BCG members who tried the OM-1 for bird photography and sold their A1. So when there are biased (and false) statements touting the supposed superiority of one brand or body, that doesn't do much to support the "balanced view" assessment.

This is objectively false, to use your words. I can and do get full autofocused birds at 60 fps with my Z9.

I don't believe you have to condemn Camera X to praise Camera Y.

One thing I haven't seen written about the Sony A1 is the bird color/eye color issue. Some combinations of bird and eye color focus extremely well, others not so much, some not at all. This clearly has to do with the way Sony trained the ML/AI module. Others have trained theirs differently. I notice, for example, that Nikon seems to favor two bird positions (upright stationary and full flight). An unusual bird/wing shape/position will sometimes cause the Z9 to put focus in the wrong spot, though generally not off by a lot.

+1...

In the summer of 2018 Nikon finally released their Z program and joined the upcoming ML camera world.
I was lucky to try out Nikon Z7 months before availability, and it was a great first ML product at that particular moment, and I sold my D500, D850 & D4 to finance the Z6 + Z7 combo & Z lenses.
Z6 & Z7' AF was nowhere near D500' AF, but "good enough" compared to other ML options at that time point. ZZ & Z6' AF was sometimes great & sometimes even "fantastic", but unfortunately sometimes (very) frustrating...
The Z6 & Z7' LCD resolution, slow refresh rate, and movement limitations were other points I didn't like.
... But being able to shoot totally silent compared to former Nikon Dslr' machine gun sound, next to the outstanding IQ, unbeaten Nikon DR and all this in a compact, lightweight body, made me love Nikon Z.
The Z 24-70 F4 (*) is another extremely positive point I'll remember from Nikon Z.
I was using the Z7 next to my D850 for some weeks and even though Z6 & Z7 do not have the AF potential of D500 or D850, there is no problem capturing moderate action, wildlife action or BIFs with Z6 & Z7...

But then -2020- Nikon released their second generation Z cameras...
Thanks to a friendly Nikon representative I had the opportunity to test a Z7II for a couple of hours before release.
Probably loaded with too high expectations I didn't see ANY AF improvement though and that crippled, low-resolution, non-swivel LCD was still there.
Selling Z6 &/or Z7 to get Z7II &/or Z6II meant nothing else than burning money.
I was so disappointed that I canceled my Z7II & Z6II pre-orders.

On November 29th, 2020, and with no plans whatsoever to change my Z6 & Z7 for something else, ... I had the opportunity to try a Canon R5 from a friend.
I was simply blown away... I had the feeling I was shooting with a mirrorless D500, autofocusing even faster than D500 and with potentially 20 x 45Mp frames per second.
The R5 body and button layout please me more than Z and last but not least, the R5' high-resolution swivel LCD is a dream.

On December 12th I got mine at Audiophil Foto in Aachen-Germany.
The first 48 hours were pure horror trying to get along with a totally different system and menus. For a moment I was even thinking about returning it…

On December 20th I started to sell most of my Nikon gear to finance partly my entire brand switch with all glass I need, for fun and for my work...
I bought my lenses @ Audiophil in Germany and @ Art & Craft in Belgium. Both companies provide exceptional service.

The lightweight 800mm F11 is a totally unexpected extra, it provides very good IQ and R5 makes it AF about as fast as my nikkor 200-500 did on my D500 & D850, which means fast enough to capture wildlife action in good light.
R5 is that good.
Under while I added several RF lenses and a R7 for wildlife and macro. The R7 combined with the RF 100 macro is another homerun by Canon.

My Nikon -->Canon move was a one-way ticket and Z8 (3-4 years too late) won't make me change my opinion...
Kindest regards,
Stany

Is this thread mainly about AF? Is it relevant for those of us who mainly photograph things that don't move (architecture, gardens, landscape, etc.)?

Thanks for your reply Stany. This has totally been my experience as well. The R5 & R7 birds eye autofocus is just amazing! Currently I purchased the RF 1.4 extender and I am using it with the RF 100-400 with the R7. It makes for a very light and capable setup when you don't want the added weight of the R5 and RF 100-500.
Thank you, Tom

Oh come on! 😊 The Z9 shoots at 60 fps only when shooting JPEGs and in DX crop. If we are to work within limitations of a camera's processing power, the OM-1 also shoots at 120 fps and 240 fps, but that wasn't my point.

I did not condemn Camera X to praise Camera Y. Every camera has limitations, every system has compromises, and I was simply illustrating that BCG is not as unbiased as someone here had claimed.

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Over the course of a decade, I've only had posts deleted from threads you were involved in. Strange coincidence, don't you think?
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As I did not do the deleting or see what you wrote it is difficult for me to comment.

When I occasionally had a sentence deleted I always got an email explaining why.
Whether you did is probably not a relevant topic for this forum

The way you are going at him here, I am not surprised at all......LOL.

I'm a Nikon shooter (among other brands) and it doesn't bother me one bit if someone claims camera x, y, or z is a better camera. I just keep on doing what works for me with what works for me.