That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Then you introduce the possible influence of different sensor tech and a different lens (unless you use the same lens). Couldn't the same kind of comparison be performed with fewer variables by using just one camera and lens, and adjusting the shooting position so that one image fills the frame with the chosen 'reference' subject and the other image fills only a smaller central part of the frame with it?
Do you have a link to where Abbott expresses that opinion? I watched most of the A7IV review paying particular attention to the "Sensor Performance" and "Dynamic Range" sections. Abbott makes no comparison of the A7IV's dynamic range with any medium format body. I then watched Abbott's Fujifilm GFX 100II review and, in the dynamic range section which is at the beginning of the section labeled, "Conclusion and Pricing," Abbott demonstrates how the medium format camera is able to recover detail from shadows five stops underexposed. The A7IV was not able to do that.
@DonaldB has written: @NCV has written:A simple question, to which I think I know the answer.
Why do some high end areas of photography like art, fashion and architecture, use 100MP+ medium format cameras?
I believe the reason is that the file you produce with these cameras or backs have better colour and tonal transitions, compared to smaller formats. Probably post processing comes into the mix too.
they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
Do you have a link to where Abbott expresses that opinion? I watched most of the A7IV review paying particular attention to the "Sensor Performance" and "Dynamic Range" sections. Abbott makes no comparison of the A7IV's dynamic range with any medium format body. I then watched Abbott's Fujifilm GFX 100II review and, in the dynamic range section which is at the beginning of the section labeled, "Conclusion and Pricing," Abbott demonstrates how the medium format camera is able to recover detail from shadows five stops underexposed. The A7IV was not able to do that.
are you serious, he states at 5 stops on the a7iv its the best he has seen and very impressive.😉
also the a7iv can recover 3 stops over exposure against the MF 2 stops 😁 he even takes the a7iv to 4 stops that he states he never tries on any other camera.
@DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Dustin Abbott has the most unbiased professional reviews of any site on the net. which arnt biased towards sales. the fact remains the a74 should..... because its pixels are larger.
@BillFerris has written: @DonaldB has written: @NCV has written:A simple question, to which I think I know the answer.
Why do some high end areas of photography like art, fashion and architecture, use 100MP+ medium format cameras?
I believe the reason is that the file you produce with these cameras or backs have better colour and tonal transitions, compared to smaller formats. Probably post processing comes into the mix too.
they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
Do you have a link to where Abbott expresses that opinion? I watched most of the A7IV review paying particular attention to the "Sensor Performance" and "Dynamic Range" sections. Abbott makes no comparison of the A7IV's dynamic range with any medium format body. I then watched Abbott's Fujifilm GFX 100II review and, in the dynamic range section which is at the beginning of the section labeled, "Conclusion and Pricing," Abbott demonstrates how the medium format camera is able to recover detail from shadows five stops underexposed. The A7IV was not able to do that.
are you serious, he states at 5 stops on the a7iv its the best he has seen and very impressive.😉
also the a7iv can recover 3 stops over exposure against the MF 2 stops 😁 he even takes the a7iv to 4 stops that he states he never tries on any other camera.
It is funny that you would say that the A74 has 3 stops of headroom for it to recover 3 stops overexposure when this expert tell us that it meters for raw with 100% accuracy and has no headroom.
dprevived.com/t/raw-histogram/3530/post/40459/
"You and no body has yet proven that the histogram accuracy is not spot on . i dont care what they are measured off just that they align up from
my a6300 and a74 using faststone, ACR, photoshop and Fast raw viewer, which btw has been a great way of confirming how accurate my tests have been."
@DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Bill Claff seems to have a little different view:
www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%20100S,Phase%20One%20IQ4%20150MP,Sony%20ILCE-7M4
7M4 is surprising good in his chart and Phase One on it's own level.
@AlanSh has written: @DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Bill Claff seems to have a little different view:
www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%20100S,Phase%20One%20IQ4%20150MP,Sony%20ILCE-7M47M4 is surprising good in his chart and Phase One on it's own level.
ive sent bill test images before and picked up faults. i trust real images not test images taken of a computer screen. and Dustin abbott test shots are not
noise related but colour information recovered, big difference imop.
@DonaldB has written: @BillFerris has written: @DonaldB has written: @NCV has written:A simple question, to which I think I know the answer.
Why do some high end areas of photography like art, fashion and architecture, use 100MP+ medium format cameras?
I believe the reason is that the file you produce with these cameras or backs have better colour and tonal transitions, compared to smaller formats. Probably post processing comes into the mix too.
they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
Do you have a link to where Abbott expresses that opinion? I watched most of the A7IV review paying particular attention to the "Sensor Performance" and "Dynamic Range" sections. Abbott makes no comparison of the A7IV's dynamic range with any medium format body. I then watched Abbott's Fujifilm GFX 100II review and, in the dynamic range section which is at the beginning of the section labeled, "Conclusion and Pricing," Abbott demonstrates how the medium format camera is able to recover detail from shadows five stops underexposed. The A7IV was not able to do that.
are you serious, he states at 5 stops on the a7iv its the best he has seen and very impressive.😉
also the a7iv can recover 3 stops over exposure against the MF 2 stops 😁 he even takes the a7iv to 4 stops that he states he never tries on any other camera.It is funny that you would say that the A74 has 3 stops of headroom for it to recover 3 stops overexposure when this expert tell us that it meters for raw with 100% accuracy and has no headroom.
dprevived.com/t/raw-histogram/3530/post/40459/
"You and no body has yet proven that the histogram accuracy is not spot on . i dont care what they are measured off just that they align up from
my a6300 and a74 using faststone, ACR, photoshop and Fast raw viewer, which btw has been a great way of confirming how accurate my tests have been."
it all depends how you set up the camera and exposure correction bias set up. but has little to do with the dustin abbot test shots.
@TimoK has written: @AlanSh has written: @DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Bill Claff seems to have a little different view:
www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%20100S,Phase%20One%20IQ4%20150MP,Sony%20ILCE-7M47M4 is surprising good in his chart and Phase One on it's own level.
ive sent bill test images before and picked up faults. i trust real images not test images taken of a computer screen. and Dustin abbott test shots are not
noise related but colour information recovered, big difference imop.
Do you mind to post the link?
@DonaldB has written: @TimoK has written: @AlanSh has written: @DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Bill Claff seems to have a little different view:
www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%20100S,Phase%20One%20IQ4%20150MP,Sony%20ILCE-7M47M4 is surprising good in his chart and Phase One on it's own level.
ive sent bill test images before and picked up faults. i trust real images not test images taken of a computer screen. and Dustin abbott test shots are not
noise related but colour information recovered, big difference imop.Do you mind to post the link?
a link to what ?
@BillFerris has written: @DonaldB has written: @NCV has written:A simple question, to which I think I know the answer.
Why do some high end areas of photography like art, fashion and architecture, use 100MP+ medium format cameras?
I believe the reason is that the file you produce with these cameras or backs have better colour and tonal transitions, compared to smaller formats. Probably post processing comes into the mix too.
they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
Do you have a link to where Abbott expresses that opinion? I watched most of the A7IV review paying particular attention to the "Sensor Performance" and "Dynamic Range" sections. Abbott makes no comparison of the A7IV's dynamic range with any medium format body. I then watched Abbott's Fujifilm GFX 100II review and, in the dynamic range section which is at the beginning of the section labeled, "Conclusion and Pricing," Abbott demonstrates how the medium format camera is able to recover detail from shadows five stops underexposed. The A7IV was not able to do that.
are you serious, he states at 5 stops on the a7iv its the best he has seen and very impressive.😉
also the a7iv can recover 3 stops over exposure against the MF 2 stops 😁 he even takes the a7iv to 4 stops that he states he never tries on any other camera.
Anyone who's interested can watch the videos and see for themselves. In the A7II video - produced 2 years ago - Abbott doesn't make any comparison of that camera with any medium format camera.
In the GFX 100II video - produced 4 months ago - its photo is obviously cleaner in the shadows than the A7IV photo when both are exposed 5-stops under base and lightened in post.
Bear in mind, the lighting in Abbott's test scene isn't the same in the two videos. That or the baseline exposure isn't the same. Compare the highlights on metal surfaces on the old film camera bodies in the scene. The highlights in the base exposure in the MF video are much brighter.
@AlanSh has written: @DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Dustin Abbott has the most unbiased professional reviews of any site on the net. which arnt biased towards sales. the fact remains the a74 should..... because its pixels are larger.
Pixel size doesn't determine light-gathering, noise, or dynamic range. Sensor surface area does.
Here's a link to a DP Review studio comparison scene featuring the Nikon D850 and D500, and the Sony A7RIV and A6600: www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d850&attr13_1=nikon_d500&attr13_2=sony_a7riv&attr13_3=sony_a6600&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&attr126_2=1&normalization=compare&widget=1&x=-0.8823642609258117&y=-0.17770292737497148
Each pair is built around sensors having similar pixel density and pixel size. Yet, the full-frame cameras display obviously less noise than their APS-C counterparts. This is due to the larger surface area of the full-frame sensors capturing more total light at the same exposure.
@DonaldB has written: @BillFerris has written: @DonaldB has written: @NCV has written:A simple question, to which I think I know the answer.
Why do some high end areas of photography like art, fashion and architecture, use 100MP+ medium format cameras?
I believe the reason is that the file you produce with these cameras or backs have better colour and tonal transitions, compared to smaller formats. Probably post processing comes into the mix too.
they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
Do you have a link to where Abbott expresses that opinion? I watched most of the A7IV review paying particular attention to the "Sensor Performance" and "Dynamic Range" sections. Abbott makes no comparison of the A7IV's dynamic range with any medium format body. I then watched Abbott's Fujifilm GFX 100II review and, in the dynamic range section which is at the beginning of the section labeled, "Conclusion and Pricing," Abbott demonstrates how the medium format camera is able to recover detail from shadows five stops underexposed. The A7IV was not able to do that.
are you serious, he states at 5 stops on the a7iv its the best he has seen and very impressive.😉
also the a7iv can recover 3 stops over exposure against the MF 2 stops 😁 he even takes the a7iv to 4 stops that he states he never tries on any other camera.Anyone who's interested can watch the videos and see for themselves. In the A7II video - produced 2 years ago - Abbott doesn't make any comparison of that camera with any medium format camera.
In the GFX 100II video - produced 4 months ago - its photo is obviously cleaner in the shadows than the A7IV photo when both are exposed 5-stops under base and lightened in post.
Bear in mind, the lighting in Abbott's test scene isn't the same in the two videos. That or the baseline exposure isn't the same. Compare the highlights on metal surfaces on the old film camera bodies in the scene. The highlights in the base exposure in the MF video are much brighter.
I love this quote from the gfx 100. "electronic trickery" who really knows what camera companies do. but the fact remains MF is no better for tonal grads or DR. resolution ,sure
"If you want more latitude in the highlights you can either underexpose a bit (shadows are easy to recover), or you can utilize Fuji’s DR200 and DR400 modes. If you shoot at a slightly higher ISO value (200), you can choose the DR200 mode, or at ISO 400 you can choose the DR400 mode. In DR200, camera will use electronic trickery to sample the shadow and midtone data from the current ISO setting (200) while using the base ISO’s highlights, giving you an additional stop of DR. In DR400 the process is further exaggerated as the camera can then sample the highlights from two stops down, giving you two additional stops of DR.
@DonaldB has written: @AlanSh has written: @DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Dustin Abbott has the most unbiased professional reviews of any site on the net. which arnt biased towards sales. the fact remains the a74 should..... because its pixels are larger.
Pixel size doesn't determine light-gathering, noise, or dynamic range. Sensor surface area does.
Here's a link to a DP Review studio comparison scene featuring the Nikon D850 and D500, and the Sony A7RIV and A6600: www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d850&attr13_1=nikon_d500&attr13_2=sony_a7riv&attr13_3=sony_a6600&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&attr126_2=1&normalization=compare&widget=1&x=-0.8823642609258117&y=-0.17770292737497148
Each pair is built around sensors having similar pixel density and pixel size. Yet, the full-frame cameras display obviously less noise than their APS-C counterparts. This is due to the larger surface area of the full-frame sensors capturing more total light at the same exposure.
Are we ignoring equivalence in this discussion?
I think we all can understand easily why perspective and field of view don't change. Now, consider the following question: How many photons are captured and make up the image, in total? Well, it is all photons flying (while the shutter is open) towards the camera from within the field of view, and hitting the lens' aperture. All of them eventually reach the sensor as it is how we define field of view here. And because we keep the lens' aperture diameter 'd' a constant, this number of photons is indeed a constant too. Which immediately yields that dynamic range and image noise is a constant too. Sensor size is no factor anymore!
www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/equivalence/index.html
1.3.4. Noise
Equivalent cameras have the same level of image noise. <>
1.3.5. Dynamic range
Equivalent cameras have the same dynamic range.
www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/equivalence/ff.html
Seems like we must be - which makes statements made so far about noise and dynamic range less credible, sorry to say.
So, to compare MF to m4/3 IQ is a crop factor of about 4. Ergo, you should compare a MF 50 mm f/2.8 lens with a 12.5 mm f/0.7 lens for m4/3; both are equivalent.
Good luck finding the latter m4/3 lens ... LOL
@DonaldB has written: @AlanSh has written: @DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Dustin Abbott has the most unbiased professional reviews of any site on the net. which arnt biased towards sales. the fact remains the a74 should..... because its pixels are larger.
Pixel size doesn't determine light-gathering, noise, or dynamic range. Sensor surface area does.
Here's a link to a DP Review studio comparison scene featuring the Nikon D850 and D500, and the Sony A7RIV and A6600: www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d850&attr13_1=nikon_d500&attr13_2=sony_a7riv&attr13_3=sony_a6600&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&attr126_2=1&normalization=compare&widget=1&x=-0.8823642609258117&y=-0.17770292737497148
Each pair is built around sensors having similar pixel density and pixel size. Yet, the full-frame cameras display obviously less noise than their APS-C counterparts. This is due to the larger surface area of the full-frame sensors capturing more total light at the same exposure.
shoot video and tell me the a7s2 isnt the king of low light video. and you do know the a7s3 is a 48 meg sensor 🤐 and dxo mark tests show the 12 meg large pixels blow the 12meg binned away.
Here's a link to a DPR test scene comparison of the first gen Fuji GFX 100 with the Sony A7IV that clearly shows the medium format camera has better dynamic range at base ISO: www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=fujifilm_gfx100&attr144_1=fujifilm_gfx100&attr144_2=sony_a7iv&attr144_3=sony_a7iv&attr146_0=100_0&attr146_1=100_5&attr146_2=100_0&attr146_3=100_5&attr178_0=2&attr178_1=1&attr178_2=2&attr178_3=1&normalization=compare&widget=587&x=0.18635354933829643&y=0.5017597853197943
This is as expected due to the larger sensor's greater surface area.
@BillFerris has written: @DonaldB has written: @AlanSh has written: @DonaldB has written:they dont actually. if you look at Dustin Abbots reviews the a7iv can out perform all MF cameras in DR and shadow recovery.
That's one persons opinion. Do others also think that? Or do they have different views? Just asking.
Alan
Dustin Abbott has the most unbiased professional reviews of any site on the net. which arnt biased towards sales. the fact remains the a74 should..... because its pixels are larger.
Pixel size doesn't determine light-gathering, noise, or dynamic range. Sensor surface area does.
Here's a link to a DP Review studio comparison scene featuring the Nikon D850 and D500, and the Sony A7RIV and A6600: www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d850&attr13_1=nikon_d500&attr13_2=sony_a7riv&attr13_3=sony_a6600&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&attr126_2=1&normalization=compare&widget=1&x=-0.8823642609258117&y=-0.17770292737497148
Each pair is built around sensors having similar pixel density and pixel size. Yet, the full-frame cameras display obviously less noise than their APS-C counterparts. This is due to the larger surface area of the full-frame sensors capturing more total light at the same exposure.
shoot video and tell me the a7s2 isnt the king of low light video. and you do know the a7s3 is a 48 meg sensor 🤐 and dxo mark tests show the 12 meg large pixels blow the 12meg binned away.
You can thank Sony's internal noise reduction applied to the compressed video format recorded in the A7SII for its great low-light performance.