For those like myself that like the old school mirror and clickety clack of our shutters, does the Z8 offer enough.
For me the answer is no. I’m very happy with my D850 and D5. I’ve tried some ML briefly including the Z9 and the EVF is a huge turn off for me. I shoot birds in action and need a real time view. The D850 and D5 deliver the AF and Speed that I need. I don’t see myself switching to ML for several years.
For the DSLR shooters what are your thoughts? Are you dying to jump to ML? Is the price too high for the Z8?
I noticed you had signed up. Good to see you here.
There's nothing that my D4s, D850 and D500 doesn't do for me. I could see adding the right ML body as an additional body for a couple of features, but as I mentioned in another thread, a Z8 is $5500 Canadian + 15% tax, and a Z9 is $7000 Canadian plus 15% tax, so any benefit would not justify that cost.
how about procapture - that is something that you don't have in dSLRs vs the lag that still exists in dSLR between your brain reacting and exposure starting
No, it isn't high enough of resolution to replace a 50 MP medium format DSLR. And before anyone thinks of 45 MP vs 50 MP, consider the greater amount of MP lost cropping to a 5:4 aspect ratio vs from a 4:3 one.
So what would convert me to ML is a 100 MP medium format body. But, for now, sticking with what I have.
Finally, my ears did perk up when the Z8 rumor was for a 60 MP.
I don't really get into this EITHER/OR thinking. For some things (studio work primarily), I vastly prefer the experience of an OVF and the lack of any lag, no matter how slight, visually, because I photograph dance at times. So for that - the DSLR is my tool of choice. For outdoor work and landscape, I have a Z7 and Z7-II and am beginning to acquire a nice set of Z mount glass, and in those use cases, I prefer the Z approach, both for the smaller size/weight of the bodies and that the S line glass in some cases is absolutely wonderful.
The Z8 should offer improvements over the Z7 bodies for studio work, but I still gravitate towards DSLR/OVF for that work, so who knows. But the Z lenses I own are special. I probably see myself as being a 4 body shooter by the end of 2024 - A Z8 and Z7-III (assuming the rumors that that would be the higher resolution body coming in 2024) on the mirrorless side, and a D850/D800E combination for the DSLR side for studio work.
Getting rid of "the old school mirror and clickety clack" is one of the biggest reasons that I took the plunge and got a Z9. Now totally silent shooting (and no moving mechanical shutter) gets me photos of shy birds and other wildlife close-up that would previously have spooked.
The Z9 EVF effectively IS real time view or as near as makes no difference. When the Z9 was first released it used to be 1/60th sec delay with v1 firmware until Nikon released firmware v2. Since then the EVF refreshes at 120 frames per sec (user optional). So unless that 1/120th second delay is too much ... but personally I find it like using a real-time OVF.
There are of course real pros and cons to using an EVF but with the Z9, the old EVF "lack of real-time" issue effectively doesn't exist anymore.
Interesting thread and interesting reply from you Mike.
To the OP, I've already converted to ML. Why? I'll take the smaller form factor of the bodies and see the elimination of the "clickety clack" that you mention to be a good thing. YMMV and that's fine too.
Regarding the real time view with an OVF, you get precisely that with a stacked sensor camera such as a Z9 or now Z8 (and other brands with stacked sensors too). In other words, no EVF blackout.
My personal approach and needs have sadly moved me away from Nikon. Personally I'm in the right place FOR ME. But Nikon is an exciting place to be in ML terms. Even more so with the Z8 announcement today.
I will try the Z8 as it seems like best option for me given the other ML options on the table and having tried several already. I will keep my d810 and some other dslrs and glass because I love OVF also and I love some of the classic sensors...d810 is still amazing...I love the d700 and the d200 for different reasons and i love some vintage glass on those cameras.. I might even down the line pickup a backup 810 as prices drop because it's just a brilliant sensor inside that thing. My d850 will probably go for sale with a 70-200 2.8e which will smooth over the financial outlay of the Z8 which I recon I'll start with their class leading 24-70/2.8. Im also in the neighbourhood for a new tripod and finally going to dump the annoying manfrotto lock system and move to arca. Long overdue. Looking forward to a better screen and sensitivity for framing up deepsky and landscape astro shots, the tilt screen, the PD charging so I can top it up in the car or from a powerbank or when shooting deepsky I can power it through night. I doubt my shots will improve from the camera alone but the shooting experience will likely improve especially for astro work. Lots of little things.
Good to see you posting here Kris.
Have looked at ML seriously. I am not making a change. Kris, your photos are proof that the photographer means than the camera. ML offers some incremental advantages, but in the end the cost of conversion is not worth it.
I have a D500, a Z9, and a Z7. Let me start by saying the Z9 is the best camera I have ever had. But it is so in the same sense that some years ago the D810A was the best camera I had ever had at the time I got it. The Z9 makes a lot of things easier, but at the end of the day, it ultimately does not really deliver something that is unattainable with what you have, save perhaps combining the speed of the D5 and up with the megapixels of the D850 in one package (which may or may not be a big deal to you or other users). Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy using it and even looking at it while it's on a desk/table, but that does not keep me from using my trusty D500 (more on that in a bit).
I got into mirrorless because I wanted to have an easier time with video, so I got the original Z7 with that in mind and the 45MP for landscape photography (I skipped the D850 at the last minute). I eventually discovered that for the kind of video I do things were easier and more convenient, but not overwhelmingly so. Nevertheless, the Z7 gave me more options in terms of the video I could do and to do so with less planning. Yet, I never felt enamored by the the Z7; it was, at the end of the day, a less versatile camera than the D500, which remained my go-to camera when I wanted absolute certainty I could trust the camera to do what I needed or wanted. Suffice it to illustrate by saying that my Z7 has less than 8k clicks. I kept the Z7 because I had bought Z glass and because the video advantage, while not overwhelming (at least for my uses), was still convenient enough.
Once the Z9 appeared, I concluded that it had the best of the D500, D5 and D850, so I got it. It was an expensive decision that I am very happy about. The Z7 went to storage and is looking for a new home. The D500 remains with me and I doubt I will ever part ways with it; it is just too reliable and fun, but also far more versatile than even Nikon ever advertised. I love the OVF and I actually like the clickety clack soundof the shutter, which brings me to side note. While silent photography is nice with mirrorless, I never found the mirror flapping to chase birds away. Now that I have been using the Z9 for year and change I am more certain that nervous and jumpy birds go away primarily because my approach was not good.
While my writing might be neither very clear nor precise, the above brings me to the Z8. If I did not already have a Z9, I would probably have preordered a z8 right away, perhaps even with the grip. And, as I write these lines, I think the z8 might finally push me to go full time mirrorless (though I would not part ways with the D500).
Meanderings aside, perhaps one final thought. If someone were to tell me that I have no choice but to give up my Z9 and go back to full time DSLR, I could happily go to a D850/D5 or D850/D5 combo without feeling that I am missing out or that my photography will be worse off.
Thanks for the response. I don’t think I would find much use for pro capture. I track my birds until they do something interesting or until they are about to fill the frame. My brief experience with ML was the delay was there when I picked it up quick we’re the D5/D850 are ready to go in a fraction of a second.
Great feedback and thanks for keeping the discussion going. There really is no right or wrong answer. Everyone shoots differently so having the camera that works best for your needs (and is with you) is the best camera to have.
Thanks for the kind words! I figured I would give this forum a shot. The other one was pretty toxic and my postings really tapered off over the years..
No, I won’t be switching to this camera. It has excellent spec’s, but for me it’s too expensive to switch to Z gear. In Canada the Z8 is $5400. I’m more than happy with my D5 and D500, and I too prefer the OVF for birds and wildlife.
Pre-capture is nice to have, a cool creature comfort function. But again, depending on what you are doing, it's not earth-shattering. For example, I love taking pictures of lightning storms, but for me it does not make a big difference. I will usually set my camera on a tripod, set my shutter and f-stop, and then leave it clicking with 3-second intervals in between clicks.
I find pre capture a bit more useful for BIF. But more so with birds I am not familiar with, as I might not have an eye for signs they are about to fly, for example.
Regarding the OVF vs EVF. One thing I do is dance photography, and have been doing it since the film/manual focus days, which obviously dates me. A dance photographer who has been doing it at a high level for a long time tends to have an innate, muscle-memory type of "built in" timing sense for shooting leaps/jumps/turns, and a lot of that is predicated on seeing things in real time, not in "past tense", and that "seeing things" refers to the internal decision making as to when the shutter must be depressed. In the film era, I had two different internal "memories" to adjust for the lag time difference beween the F3 and the FM2, but the those decisions were based upon real time data, not past tense data. So this is an area where I think - and I don't mean to insult anyone, those who don't shoot it really don't really understand the nuances of it. Regarding the high EVF frame rate, it's a good question and something I'll have to try out assuming I pick up a Z8; my guess is that for some leaps/jumps, that high a frame rate will be adequate for timing purposes, but there are some leaps/jumps that are incredibly time-sensitive with a very, very small window where the shot "is", and for those, I don't think it may be enough. Poster Andre Yew is also a dance photographer and he may have some commentary in this regard since he shoots with a Z9 and probably does more of this type of work now than I do (I still shoot it, but nowhere as much as, say, 10 years ago). I'm not saying the EVF won't be good enough, but I will remain skeptical until I use it myself. The other thing is that while I have adapted quite well to the EVF for many things - more than I thought I would - for studio work with humans, I still like the unadulterated absolutely clear view an OVF gives. As such, I can't say for sure a D850 will ever be totally replaced. But it might be. I'm open to it possibly being so but I also have been around long enough to know that every tool has tasks they are optimum at, so there's that. Long answer for "we will see at some point". So I'm less likely to have absolute "THIS wins period" kind of views than some, but will retain an open mind at the same time.
