Z8 vs Z9 and the $1500 question

So the Z8's out, and assuming the new features of the Z8 make it to the Z9 in a FW update, what's the $1500 get you? As a Z9 owner for the last year I'm wondering for new buyers, or even for my own satisfaction, what benefits does the Z9 have that could make up for the additional $1500 cost - I saw Thom's list, but he's missing some differences that matter more to me than the ones he has listed.

If I was to buy a Z8 I'm not sure I'd bother with the MB-N12 as it's not clear that it provides any additional features other than battery life and a vertical trigger, on the D800E it increased shutter speed which was a key reason I bought the battery grip, but this just looks like a massive, and ugly, battery extension. Based on the pictures it seems that he Z8+MB-N12 is huge compared to the Z9. However, for 8K shooting perhaps the extra power is needed, I think that'd be the only reason I would consider such a big ugly grip compared to the elegance of the Z9 design and amazing battery life. I suspect the Z9 is also much lighter than the 8+Grip.

The question of 8K/60 thermals, and the time you can really record before it shuts down is a big open question, they claim 90 minutes for 8K/30, I haven't seen any claims on actual 8K/60/RAW recording.

The GPS is nice, although I haven't used it much and wouldn't associate much value to it.

However the real cost neutralizer as I see it between the Z8 and Z9 - for my usage is the second CFExpress slot. I need 6TB of storage for 4hours of 8K/60 content, needs to be portable, and I won't have a laptop on a long trip. The best solution I've found for the Z9 a single $900 fast 2TB card, and some cheap $170 2TB M.2's and M.2 to CFExpress adapters that I can copy files at 400MB/s between the slots. So back at my hotel I can copy from my main slot to the second slot onto these much cheaper SSD adapter cards. With the Z8 there is no second CFExpress slot, so the copy action will only work at ~130MBs at best, taking 3x longer, and the cards are vastly higher in cost too, meaning in all reality I'd need to be buying 3x 2TB CFExpress cards, the extra two cards would cost $1500 and match the cost difference between the Z8 and Z9. More sensibly Nikon could perhaps enable USB-C drive attach in firmware and completely eliminated this issue altogether, in fact, perhaps the Z8 does this anyway, which would be a huge improvement over this silly set of hoops I'm using.

Unless there's any AF performance difference I suspect they are going to greatly reduce their Z9 sales, and perhaps their volumes had dropped anyway so they needed this to keep driving unit sales.

Roland.

I think the sales of this will more than make up for lost Z9 sales. Maybe that's why they were so secretive in the first place......to maximize Z9 sales first before even releasing a rumor about it.

Rpwooste--you made a good case for your Z9! If I had your use case, I would not be looking at a Z8.

But there are a lot of folks out there that don't need 8k for 4 hours and don't want the bulk, so the Z8 appears to be perfect for them. I don't have any Nikon bodies now but I am very happy that Nikon came out with the Z8 to fill the gap below the Z9. I'm loving it, even though I may never own one myself, same way I feel about the Panasonic S5ii and iiX, it's all good. Lots of choices for folks.

No, it isn't necessary. You do have reduced record time, obviously, but the EN-EL15C power is sufficient.

Are you really recording 8K/60P NRAW, though? I don't see many Z9 users doing that. You are correct that it piles up storage really fast (and I think faster than you've calculated). 8K NRAW is almost 1TB/hour at 24 fps. You're talking about 25 minutes/TB at 60 fps. Also, you're only going to be using Davinci to edit that footage at the moment.

You're dead right the Z9 is a tough sell at this point. I suspect the Z9 sales volume is going to decline precipitously at this point. Now, it may be that Nikon had been predicting a precipitous sales volume decline 13 months after launch anyway, and this is the way to drive volume at the next price point down to get the remaining D850 users over to the Z-system and drive a bunch of high value lens updates. Better to cannibalize your own product line than to leave it to the competition to do it anyway.

I don't like the 4.1K/60/NRAW I honestly believe there's something wrong with it. When I'm shooting 4K (which is rarely the case) I use the oversampled UHD/60/H265 instead - the data size is smaller anyway and that's the only reason I'd be shooting 4K anyway and it doesn't have the nasty effects I'm seeing in the 4.1K RAW. The vast majority of the video I'm shooting is always in 8K/60/NRAW/NORM, At 60fps/NORM it's 1h19 on a 2TB card. Hence my statement of 4 hours = 6TB. I'm using Davinci Resolve Studio, along with an i7-13700K and RTX4090 on PCie G4 based SSD storage so editing is quite easy.

Here's some of the content that I've posted to YouTube
youtube.com/@RolandWoosterHDR

Do you happen to know how long the Z8 can record 8K/60/NRAW (NORM) without overheating or the battery running flat? On the Z9 I've been able to run it outside (in the shade) at 100F ambient temperature to fill the entire card 1h19, delete the card and get close to another hour on the card again until the battery is flat. While there are lots of hot card and heat warnings, by setting the warnings to least restrictive I've been able to keep going until the card is full or the battery flat. I wonder if the Z8 will be able to achieve the same or whether the thermal limits will be tighter with the smaller body. I tried the same test in direct summer sunlight with an ambient temperature of 100F, but in the sunlight, even before starting to record the camera skin was 130F and it shutdown due to thermals pretty quickly.

Roland

I think there is a misconception on what Nikon expected to sell in terms of Z9.They sold more than expected from such an high end model.
Probably because it was nicely priced resulting in people waiting for a Z8 (and incapable to wait longer) to also buy a Z9. Some will even sell it now to get a z8 .... something I truly cannot wrap my head around.
From now on, whoever buys the z9 is the intended buyer making the Z9 a great commercial success for Nikon.

Personally I have a z9, and i would still buy one today. I like the grip, the battery (I shoot easily >1k per hour ... and sessions are few hours), the dual CFE, the GPS and the fact that a z8+grip would be bigger and less robust/nice to handle (and the different in price is not significant). I only want pre-shoot to come to raw and even better at 30fps.

A 2TB very fast card fills with 8.3k 60p 12-bit HQ N-Raw in 80 minutes -- no overheating and lots of battery life left. it is the card capacity that is the issue. As a rule I try not to shoot single vids for anywhere need that long but one has to try.
other formats/fps east less data and the camera just keep going.
The new power delivery usb-c port means that a Z8 plugged into a large power bank. v-battery or power adapter will just run and run = no issues with 90min limit.

it is horses for courses. some work needs big and tough other will be easier with smaller and lighter. The good news is that the Z8 works essentially the same as a Z9 in most settings so it is easy to mix and match. I own 2 Z9 and will, i hope shortly, own 2 Z8. My use case is clear.

I don't earn from photography and its only a hobby, when I switched from Sony the Z9 was the only match to my A1, but much bigger, didn't have any other choice. I think a lot of people were on the same boat. Now that there is a choice, cheaper, lighter body with downgrades less important to us, I am considering selling the Z9 to get Z8. Of course I will make sure I don't loose any money, if anything I expect some cash left over. I assume a lot of professionals have already earned the Z9 back with their jobs so that depreciation doesn't matter much.

Just curious why do you think you will not loose money selling Z 9?

By my math losing money on the switch is a possibility; we are past the peak of Z9 frenzy. In my experience it’s uncommon to recoup >= 2/3 of the as-new price in the case of used photo goods in very, very good condition. I’d expect a net of somewhere around $3700 USD.

I've checked yesterday KEH. They are offering for Z 9 in top condition just under $3,700. They are selling it for under $5,400. You can buy new one for $5,496 right away.

Every market is different, I'm just speaking from my own situation....as a hobbyist I have my own ways of purchasing/selling gear, if I kept loosing money every time why bother.
Z9 got the firmware 4.0 coming within this month, matching Z8 functions and rumor has it will have something the z8 doesnt.
Also Nikon JP increased Z9 price by 10% here where I live so ....

to be more frank, I have access to 3-4 different markets, including China which assume you all know has the lowest RRP($3888 incl.tax) plus when traveling you can save on duty, sometimes 10-15%

I understand that if you have access to more markets (something in Europe is basically gone) you can play around and not loose money. That changes things considerably.
Your situation is (in my opinion) what has caused the Z9 market to spike more than it should have. This means that there is a perception now the z9 sales will fall ... but reality, they will go to what it was meant to be (or even a little bit higher).
Also because of this exceptional sale spike, the economics around the z9 sensor has changed and has given Nikon the opportunity to do what they could not in the past: put int he a8 the same internals of a z9.

Everybody has there own reason for buying or not buying a camera.

My decision is to keep my Z9 (for me trading a Z9 is a no-no) and to replace my "day 1" Z7 with a Z8. Assuming I get the Z8 in the first batch into the UK my Z7 will be 4.75 years old.

Living in a dusty location the Z8 dual coated dust resisting sensor (as in Z9) will be a big plus for me - and the image buttons are on opposite sides on the Z7 or Z8/9. I prefer the Z8/9 position.
After the likely due soon Z9 firmware upgrade the only plus (other than video) of the Z8 over Z9 is the dual USB ports - useful for the very few Z9 photographer who do extended video.
The Z8 has probably the best video spec of any current conventional ML body - making the second USB-C port a win-win.

Back to the Z8 - when shooting birds it will be a "full spec" second body to the Z9 - though negligible advantage over the Z7 for landscapes.

Something I do with every major purchase (not just cameras) is make notes of why I chose whatever it is - and after 12 months review the reasons to learn if my original decision was good or bad.

This is the beauty of things. We are all different. I do not see me trading in the z9 or z7v1 any time soon (probably never till they break).
I only would love a z50 with ibis.