• Members 139 posts
    May 5, 2023, 7:50 p.m.

    Hi

    I am interested in Z 9 AF settings that people use primarily for people photography / street photography.

    Mine is set to AF-C, 3-D tracking with subject detection. I have instant recall set to a dynamic area mode.

  • May 5, 2023, 9:16 p.m.

    Does it work well?

  • Members 139 posts
    May 5, 2023, 9:40 p.m.

    Sometimes 3-D tracking doesn't recognize or want to be on the subject. So in those situations I switch to dynamic area, but of course the subject has to be in the center (as usually I don't fiddle around trying to move the focus point), so its more constraining.

    I wonder if the reverse is a better option - i.e. first use dynamic area mode to get to the subject, then use instant recall to switch to 3d-tracking, assuming that the system recognizes the transition.

  • Members 139 posts
    May 5, 2023, 9:42 p.m.

    Btw Nikon has recommended settings for scenarios, but mostly they seem to cover sports photography.

  • Members 621 posts
    May 5, 2023, 10:21 p.m.

    Ignoring settings for a moment..the Z9 is rather a beast for street. I can’t picture using my F5 or D2x for street work.

  • Members 65 posts
    May 7, 2023, 9:19 a.m.

    To get the best out of 3D tracking the intended subject has to be correctly detected.

    One method some recommend is to use is to use AF-Medium to detect the subject, and to program a function button so that once having detected the subject a single button press starts 3D tracking.

  • Members 139 posts
    May 7, 2023, 10:01 a.m.

    I am going to try this as follows.

    • Set default AF to dynamic AF.
    • Setup a button with AF-on+3-D tracking mode.

    So after initial pointing to subject - using the button enable 3-D tracking.

  • Members 65 posts
    May 7, 2023, 10:29 a.m.

    I cannot guarantee it will work well for you.

    It is a method often used for BIF photography - and at least in theory "street photography' is less AF demanding.

  • Members 71 posts
    May 7, 2023, 11:58 a.m.

    3D-tracking works well with some subjects, but generally not people (on a D6 this is reversed). I'd say set a custom wide area with Subject Detect, and override to Dynamic-area AF, when needed. Have an alternative method to pinpoint where you want focus (e.g. DISP button set to AF-ON+AF-area mode=Single Point).

  • May 7, 2023, 1 p.m.

    It's interesting to muse on why Nikon dropped 3-D tracking withe the Z system. Essentially it was because their engineers know it doesn't work with mirrorless AF. The crude phase detection can't provide the accurate depth estimate on which it depends. With the Z9 we got the marketing department's version, which is a subject recognition based system which is designed to emulate 3D tracking. It doesn't work quite the same.

  • Members 139 posts
    May 7, 2023, 1:17 p.m.

    Thanks for the suggestion, I will try this.

  • Members 71 posts
    May 7, 2023, 4:35 p.m.

    Nikon didn't "drop" 3D-tracking. It changed.

    The DSLRs used wide color sampling from the metering sensor to augment the large phase detect sensors in the center of the frame (and the D6 had fully cross-hatched ones). The mirrorless cameras sub-sample pixels from the image sensor. They don't have the same vertical discrimination, nor do they always have good color information (they're all on the same BG row). I believe with fast enough AF processing, they can "fix" 3D-tracking. They've already messed with it twice on the Z9, changing the way it works each time.

  • Members 61 posts
    May 7, 2023, 4:39 p.m.

    I feel like relying on AI/ML (as an industry) to solve problems that already had solutions is a mistake, personally.

    Eg cross type af points. They were solid. AI/Machine Learning has some tricks you don't need them for, but when the subject recognition fails, having cross type would be better than not.

    Maybe in a few generations we'll see mirrorless bodies that aren't Oly (I think just them, anyway) with them.

  • Members 29 posts
    May 8, 2023, 9:32 a.m.

    Well since a D2X -- weighs about 2.4 pounds (38 oz or 1,070 g) and the F5 1,210 g without batteries nor film (so heavier with), which is about the same as a Z9 AND both are larger than a Z9 - I assume your definition of a beast is LARGE and heavier than others -- of course you could be kidding.

    I use my Z9 when shooting street action and vids and when in a group or when I want to access a function I don't have in another body.
    BUT I use a slightly smaller and lighter X2D-100C when I want high dynamic range and truly wonderful images when there is little subject movement.
    It is surely the job to use the right tools in the right circumstances.

    My street settings for Z9 are little different to my general settings. Manual Model Continuous Low or Single Shot, Auto-ISO enabled. AF mode depends on the image I wish to take. See below for the rest.

    As a rule - when I shoot street scenes with a wider angle lens like the Z28/2.8 I shoot manual focussed with a ZONE focusing approach - I prefocus on either the hyperfocal distance or at a predefined distance and wait for the subject to enter the frame
    I use 3D-tracking when I have a specific subject in mind but need to counteract my own ability to hold the camera steady and allow the subject/composition to change. HOWEVER, since the lighting (or lack of consistent lighting) can cause issues as the subject walks through the scene -- so I tend to also use FN1 to hand off to dynamic-area small+AF-ON which grabs whatever is under the the centre point of the area having moved the AF point to where I want the subject to be in the image.

    When shooting the skateboarders and rollerbladers on the SouthBank near Waterloo Bridge I have tried everything from full auto-area with human SD and had good results -- but the place is small, you need a fairly high shutter speed and it is often near dark. So don't expect clean pure images, expect a lot of misses and grain etc... and that is part of street "action" shooting. Adapt to what your setup needs. Light levels and movement dominate my choices. I have been with folk who use Profoto Strobes in these places when they are delivering output for a project -- so you adapt and use the tools that fit the work.

    You can work out fairly easily with a smartphone app what the hyperfocal distance is for your lens and aperture -- I just pace out the distance and set focus that way when there is no scale on the lens. E.G. using Z28/2.8 at f/8 HFD is 3.39m or 10'6" and 4.65m at f/5.6. Wide open it is 9.27m

    As to ISO and shutter speed -- well this is where your creative vision comes into play -- you can easily handhold a Z8 down to 1/50th or slower with Normal VR enabled. Some folk shoot much slower than that handheld. AND obviously one should use a support when shooting light trails etc.. I still prefer the subject to be frozen and so will tend to try to shoot with a shutter speed faster than 1/160th but it all depends on the available light and the image I wish to create. DO NOT worry about ISO - just let it float to whatever it needs to be such that you do not clip the whites and can keep the bulk of the histogram out of the blacks. I shoot matrix metering with a Flat picture profile as this appears to provide the best representation of what a RAW data histogram maybe. On a few occasions I use highlight weighted metering is I know my subject is going to be very bright -- but if the subject is a human face this is where enabling B4 Matrix Metering Face Detection can help. Use exposure compensation to balance your exposure AND add light, from torches to strobes, to your taste..

  • Members 139 posts
    May 8, 2023, 9:51 a.m.

    Thank you for the insight - very helpful.

    I assume that you plan beforehand where your subject will be in the frame?

  • Members 29 posts
    May 8, 2023, 10:16 a.m.

    YES and NO -- which is why one adapts - as a rule if shooting action - like skateboarders one should plan on where you want their head/body + board to be in the frame relative to the scene and try to execute this. Similarly for everything else -- plan your shot, set up and execute -- I try not to just "point and shoot" -- but of course one can (very easily). When walking through e.g. a street market there are so many choices of what to shoot and how to shoot - that is why one has to be ready to adapt.

    I have 5 different AF-modes with AF-ON assigned to buttons on my Z9 and lenses and the ability to turn Subject Detection (SD) on and off as a shooting recall hold assigned to the movie button. Area AF modes (wide, small, auto area, C1 and C2) in the Z9 without SD are similar to group AF -- they simply pick the closest high contrast "object" in the area -- hence why I try to only use them very small when I am not using SD.

    When shooting Manual Focus I prefer to use the MF/AF slider switch on the lens when the lenses have this option. It is simply quicker than other routes.

    The first AF-mode is actuated by half depressing the shutter button. Often this is my C1 or C2 Area-AF setting with SD on -- but I make my selection planned based on what I want to shoot at the time.
    Fn1 is Dynamic-Area Small or Medium (depends on the speed of subject motion) -- this does not use SD and is most similar to the dynamic areas AF I used in my D5 and D850 - just move the AF point to where you want it to be -- I use the joystick others use the LCD.
    Fn2 - Auto-Area AF -- I only EVER use this when SD is enabled and typically for fast moving action in uncluttered environment AND when I can control what the camera "picks" as the subject.
    FN3 - the other C1 or C2 depending on what I had chosen to use as my primary. Often some kind of letter box (when shooting over water or looking for faces) or very small square (even 1x1)
    AND of course 3D-tracking with AF_ON on the back button (af-on button) --- I use this for 99% of human subjects but tend to use the handoff approach - capture focus with my general AF-mode and then hand off to 3D to track/recompose once I have a lock. It works best in good light and this can be a challenge in the street.
    Lens buttons -- I tend to have 3D-tracking with AF-ON on a super tele lens button and disable lens control rings/function rings -- I am still in the "what the heck just happened" stage of my experience with these - particularly on the new super teles where one or more of these rings are precisely where I like to hand hold the lens. I studio taped over the the control ring on both my Z400/2.8TC and Z600/4.0TC on a recent safari, because I just kept nudging the ring. Far easier for me to use the control dials and EC button to change exposure settings than to play with a ring.