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How to get the best raw exposure, part 2

JimKasson
May 9, 2023
chat_bubble_outline 810
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  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:10 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:10 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    Not accurate !

    Post the raw file. Post FastRawViewer statistics screenshot. It's possible that your zebras are not accurate.

    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmTGIRYjPX5i7OTOO?e=GpypBH

    Screenshot 2023-05-11 072533.jpg

    will shoot some more tests today as i have a day off work.

    Thank you. The raw data in this raw file maxes at 12180. Clipping for A7M4 happens at 15871. Zebras are wrong if they indicate clipping.

    IanSForsyth likes this.

    favorite 1

  • link
    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:13 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:13 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:

    Raw file
    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmTJktgwBeeArFb21?e=gxNLgG

    1251.jpg

    63K03377.JPG

    This is an ETTR raw file:

    A7M01251-Full-7028x4688.png

    But the shot of the back of the camera shows the red channel blown. The red channel is nowhere near blown,

    A7M01251-Full-7028x4688.png

    PNG, 99.1 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on May 10, 2023.

    IanSForsyth and IliahBorg like this.

    favorite 2

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:21 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:21 p.m.
    link
    @BurnImage has written:

    Hi Jim and thanks. Your post regarding GFX-100 was best aligned to my question and makes perfect sense. For other folk reading this, the make of camera can be disregarded, if you have a dual gain sensor camera the same observations apply, subject to finding out the dual gain ISO for your particular camera.

    I'd like to dig a little more here, for the benefit of beginners and the curious. I'm in the curious camp. You state that you don't use auto ISO and I understand why, but we shoot different stuff.

    To dial that in a bit more, let's consider the likes of myself that shoot on film sets and events in general, in very dynamic and changing lighting environments. This might also apply to folk such as wedding photogrphers.

    I've set out how I do it and why. I'm very curious as to whether you'd still use a fixed ISO for my kinda bread and butter work as opposed to my "M mode auto ISO strategy". And if yes, how and why?

    Finally, if you do propose an alternative way of working would it give a dramatic gain in IQ without slowing down how you shoot in such dynamic environments?

    I think I'd like to get to a point where we have clearly understood best in class strategies based on genres shot.

    I don't know precisely the conditions under which you're shooting. It is possible that they are different from any conditions that I've encountered since I've been seriously testing cameras. So if you've found something that works for you, I'm not going to try to talk you out of it. I think we both set the exposure before we set the ISO, so that's not a difference. I walk into the room, size it up, pick the base exposure, and if that's well away from ETTR at base ISO, I pick an ISO that is going to give me plenty of headroom in case conditions change somewhat. If suddenly the room got a lot brighter -- say somebody opened the curtains -- and I needed a shot right then, it would take me a couple of seconds to change ISO, where you could just fire away. But that situation is not one that I've had to dela with.

    Athena and BurnImage like this.

    favorite 2

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    Deleted Removed user
    May 10, 2023, 10:32 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:32 p.m.
    link

    And here's what RawTherapee thinks, FWIW ...

    pixies.jpg

    pixies.jpg

    JPG, 239.3 KB, uploaded by xpatUSA on May 10, 2023.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:36 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:36 p.m.
    link
    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    Raw file
    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmTJktgwBeeArFb21?e=gxNLgG

    1251.jpg

    63K03377.JPG

    This is an ETTR raw file:

    A7M01251-Full-7028x4688.png

    But the shot of the back of the camera shows the red channel blown. The red channel is nowhere near blown,

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:38 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:38 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    WB is applied before showing zebras and histograms.

    IanSForsyth and JimKasson like this.

    favorite 2

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    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:38 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:38 p.m.
    link
    @xpatUSA has written:

    And here's what RawTherapee thinks, FWIW ...

    pixies.jpg

    Those zebras need to be let out of the corral so they stop misleading people ...

    did you try the next file i posted

  • link
    Deleted Removed user
    May 10, 2023, 10:42 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:42 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:

    And here's what RawTherapee thinks, FWIW ...

    pixies.jpg

    Those zebras need to be let out of the corral so they stop misleading people ...

    did you try the next file i posted

    No.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:42 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:42 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:

    Raw file
    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmTJktgwBeeArFb21?e=gxNLgG

    1251.jpg

    63K03377.JPG

    faststone histogram
    1251 fs.jpg

    1251 fs.jpg

    JPG, 98.7 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on May 10, 2023.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:43 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:43 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    Raw file
    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmTJktgwBeeArFb21?e=gxNLgG

    1251.jpg

    63K03377.JPG

    faststone histogram
    1251 fs.jpg

    As FastRawViewer indicates, 9 p;ixels are clipped, 5 in one green channel and 4 in the other.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:46 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:46 p.m.
    link
    @xpatUSA has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:

    And here's what RawTherapee thinks, FWIW ...

    pixies.jpg

    Those zebras need to be let out of the corral so they stop misleading people ...

    did you try the next file i posted

    No.

    doesnt get any closer than this in the field ,we only have max precision of 1/3 stop.

    1251 ps.jpg

    1251 ps.jpg

    JPG, 102.1 KB, uploaded by DonaldB on May 10, 2023.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:48 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:48 p.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    WB is applied before showing zebras and histograms.

    cool so that means i can accurately set my auto wb against the RGB histogram ?

  • link
    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:49 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:49 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    In camera WB does not affect raw data.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:51 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:51 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:

    doesnt get any closer than this in the field ,we only have max precision of 1/3 stop

    The shot I looked at can tolerate more than +1/3 EV.
    You can try the tests I've suggested to see how the zebras tolerate the subject colour and the "colour of light".

    IanSForsyth likes this.

    favorite 1

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    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:51 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:51 p.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    Raw file
    1drv.ms/i/s!ArStsPjQ301PmTJktgwBeeArFb21?e=gxNLgG

    1251.jpg

    63K03377.JPG

    faststone histogram
    1251 fs.jpg

    As FastRawViewer indicates, 9 p;ixels are clipped, 5 in one green channel and 4 in the other.

    the faststone histogram looks good Hey. didnt expect it would be this accurate. i only use it for my white background confirmation.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:52 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:52 p.m.
    link
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    WB is applied before showing zebras and histograms.

    cool so that means i can accurately set my auto wb against the RGB histogram ?

    What???

    IanSForsyth, JohnVickers, Deleted and 1 other user like this.

    favorite 4

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:53 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:53 p.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    doesnt get any closer than this in the field ,we only have max precision of 1/3 stop

    The shot I looked at can tolerate more than +1/3 EV.
    You can try the tests I've suggested to see how the zebras tolerate the subject colour and the "colour of light".

    Im very interested as well i will shoot some colour images and post the results.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:56 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:56 p.m.
    link
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    WB is applied before showing zebras and histograms.

    cool so that means i can accurately set my auto wb against the RGB histogram ?

    What???

    Jim says my greens are clipped but my camera says the reds are clipping so if i shift my WB fine colour adjustment to the green the histogram should be more accurate ?

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