• Members 369 posts
    April 10, 2023, 2:14 p.m.

    Bob, I might suggest adding the bold language in the above-quoted line. While the added language may feel redundant or seem to overemphasize a point that should be obvious, it may have the benefit of addressing, upfront, any complaints that may be registered by members whose photos are removed "in violation of their rights." Yes, members retain copyright over the content they post. However, the Foundation has the authority to alter or remove any content for any reason.

    Again, many thanks to you, Alan, and all others who have been part of this effort. The TOS is a solid foundation upon which to build the site.

  • April 10, 2023, 2:24 p.m.

    I've got two Zs, but mine just add up to 15 so I've got less to worry about.

  • April 10, 2023, 7:34 p.m.

    Now Guidelines for terms of service.


    Guidelines on using this site

    When you use this site your usage is governed by the Terms of Service
    for the site. This underpins the relationship between you and the site,
    but like all legal documents is designed to cover 'worst case'
    situations. For day to day use you are entitled to know how we will
    interpret that document and how we expect you to conduct yourself in
    accordance with it. With a common understanding we can make
    DPRevived.com a comfortable and rewarding space for everyone. This
    document takes you through the provisions of 'acceptable use', why they
    are there, and how we'd like you to shape your site usage in response.

    Content standards

    1. You may not post or upload any material which is illegal in the
      jurisdictions of the federal United States of America, the European
      Union or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

      This should go without saying. If you post material that might cause
      the forces of the law to come down on this site, you have done the
      whole community a huge disservice. Moreover, if you do it, we'll
      report you to the law enforcement agencies, so you'll have done
      yourself a huge disservice.

    2. You may not post or upload content which is liable to cause harm or
      distress to other people, including personal abuse and offensive
      discourse targeting a group or an individual based on inherent
      characteristics (such as race, religion or gender) and that might
      threaten social peace.

      This is much more complex. The last part is the UN definition of
      'hate speech', which must very definitely be kept off the site under
      all circumstances. Content that is liable to cause harm or distress
      is clearly more of a judgment. As a site, we will make that judgment
      and remove material that we believe falls the wrong side. We would
      much prefer it if our members make an appropriate judgment for
      themselves, so we don't have to. Here are some guidelines.

      • Be empathetic. Something that would cause you distress would be
        likely to cause others distress -- so don't subject others to
        behaviour that you would not want inflicted on you.

      • Be aware of the medium. In face to face interaction we get cues
        that give us feedback about how other people are reacting to
        what we say. We don't get that over the web. So, one person
        might think they are making a joke, whilst the other might find
        what is said is insulting. Err on the safe side.

      • Be culturally aware. What people find distressing differs, and
        this is an international site. Profanity, nudity and content of
        a sexual nature can all fall foul of this difference. The Web is
        not short of places where these types of subject can be
        indulged, so don't use this one. All it will do is make this a
        place where a lot of people don't want to be.

      • Don't be nasty. There is no real reason to descend to abuse and
        name calling, so don't do it. In the end it weakens your side of
        the argument.

      • Argue constructively. Robust and interesting discussions are at
        the heart of the reason people come to this kind of site, but
        let's keep them constructive. If you disagree with someone,
        state why you disagree, don't just keep contradicting -- that
        just results in your interlocutor becoming irritated. Don't
        resort to ad-hominem arguments. They are always fallacious and
        don't improve the tone of the conversation. Don't take umbrage
        because your opinion is disputed, that's what discussion is
        about. Show respect for the other party -- you might think you
        have more experience and know better, but you could easily be
        wrong.

      • Don't participate in bullying. We know how it works in the
        school yard, the gang picks on the guy with the unpopular
        opinions. Don't do it here.

      • Be sympathetic. All types come to this forum, including people
        from different backgrounds, different cultures, the
        neuro-divergent and people with different life histories who
        have been through traumas you don't know about. You may think
        that their behaviour is unreasonable, but there may be many
        reasons for it. Don't make the situation worse by picking
        disputes even if you feel that the other party is.

    3. You may not post or upload material containing malicious computer
      programs or codes intended to activate such programs or that
      provides them with data.

      It's obvious why you shouldn't be doing this, so don't do it.

    4. You may not use the Site to disclose information that you do not
      have the right to disclose.

      If you disclose such information you might be sued or prosecuted.
      If you use this site to do it, we might be sued or prosecuted.
      Obviously we will not allow that.

    Acceptable use

    1. You must not engage in any activity on the Site which is contrary
      to the federal laws of the United States of America or the laws of
      the European Union or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
      Northern Ireland.

      Clearly, the site nor its owner cannot operate if it is used for
      illegal activity. In many parts of the world things are illegal that
      shouldn't be. We have chosen to take a view of 'legality' based on
      some of the major liberal democracies in the World. If your activity
      is illegal in these jurisdictions, we really don't want you doing it
      here.

    2. You must not use or attempt to use another person's account without
      their express permission, nor must you impersonate other people when
      using the forum.

      Impersonating other people is extremely dishonest and damaging.
      There is no valid reason to do it, so don't.

    3. You may not upload any material to the Site in breach of the
      owner's copyright, nor remove any marks showing proprietary
      ownership from any uploaded materials.

      Photographers typically value their own copyright to their work, and
      we expect people to operate on the bases of treating other people as
      they would wish to be treated themselves. Moreover, the site really
      doesn't want to be embroiled in copyright disputes. Note that the
      terms say 'in breach of copyright', which means that you may post if copyright
      law allows usage, such as for instance 'fair dealing' provisions, or
      if the copyright owner grants an open licence, for example Creative
      Commons. When posting material under these provisions please comply
      with all and any of the licence provisions. If posting under 'fair
      dealing', you should comply with English law, see
      www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright

    4. You may not link or show any part of the site containing members'
      copyright materials to other websites in a manner that causes those
      materials to be separated from the context of The Site without the
      members' express permission in writing.

      Following on from the above, it's possible to unknowingly cause a
      breach of someone's copyright by 'hot linking' on another site,
      which results in the persons work being displayed on that site
      without anything to indicate whose it is, or what are the licence
      terms. To prevent this we simply don't allow hot-linking.

    5. You may not use automated means to access the Site for the purpose
      of 'web crawling' or copying material on the site, unless it is for
      the purposes of a publicly available search engine or similar
      resource.

      This is to stop bad actors using search bots and other malware to
      breach copyright and gather personal details. The presumption is
      always that anyone using these tools is up to no good.

    6. You may not falsely claim or imply affiliation with or endorsement
      by the Foundation or the Site.

      You don't have authority to speak on behalf of the foundation unless
      expressly authorised to do so, so please don't do it.

    7. You may not circumvent, disable or avoid any security or access
      restrictions of the Site.

      Should go without saying. Don't hack us!

    8. You may not conduct trade in user names or other unique identifiers
      on the Site.

    9. You may not use the Site for advertising, chain letters or other
      solicitations, nor to gather personal data for these purposes.

      Taken together it means please don't use the site to conduct dodgy
      business practices.

    10. You may not encourage or aid anyone else to violate these terms.

      We're in this together. Let's keep together.

    Our role

    Our role is to keep this place welcoming and interesting for all. Unless
    your activity is such that it threatens the well-being of the forum,
    such as illegal posts or posting malware, we will try to find solutions
    to issues through mediation and agreement. In the case where sanctions
    are needed to restore order they will be as minimal as is needed, for
    instance, we might use a short (hours) forum ban to allow disputants to
    calm down. Extended bans and account deletions will only be used as a
    last resort, or in the case of illegal or malicious behaviour.

  • April 10, 2023, 7:47 p.m.

    Bob - section 4 above has this - is the backslash after 'members' supposed to be there?

    Alan

  • April 10, 2023, 7:51 p.m.

    It isn't now 😉

  • Members 139 posts
    April 10, 2023, 7:54 p.m.

    I would suggest removing this point for following reasons:

    1. It can be subjective as to what is constructive argument.
    2. It goes against point 7. Some people have conditions that can make them behave in a certain way - example be argumentative.
    3. My experience is that this type of guideline is misused by moderators. "I am moderating you because you are being argumentative, or you are not adding value to the conversation".
  • April 10, 2023, 8:11 p.m.

    Certainly, but so can just about everything in this document. That's the very nature of talking about this kind of subject.

    I don't see the point. If someone is predisposed to be argumentative, isn't it not a good thing if they, or the other party, are encouraged to discuss constructively?

    Isn't that more a comment on the briefing of moderators rather than the principle itself? And there is a presumption there that 'moderators' will intervene in a negative way. It also says nothing about 'adding value to the conversation. Moreover, these are not rules which someone should be sanctioned for not keeping to, they are guidelines as to how to keep the place civil.
    There will also be guidelines for moderators (which I prefer we call 'facilitators', because it denotes a different emphasis in their role) which will be open and published here in the same way that these guidelines have.

  • edit

    Thread title has been changed from Terms of Service.

  • Members 535 posts
    April 10, 2023, 9:44 p.m.

    Minimal & Urgent > 1 moderator can act alone

    Eavy & not Urgent matters > 2 moderators need to agree and act together to implement it.

    Side Note:
    As a Mod, I never allowed myself to "moderate" a dispute between me as a member and a normal member

    It has to be done by some other two Mods in agreement

  • Members 244 posts
    April 10, 2023, 10:25 p.m.

    I view, and have always viewed, TOS as being “utterly protective” of the owners of the site. Hopefully you guys have had enough time to consult solid “internet knowledgeable” attorney’s in the UK and maybe elsewhere and have constructed a TOS that is protective for you. You are not some “big corp”…. You are “just folks” and should some “bad stuff happen” you should be shielded.

    Kudos to you for getting all this stuff pulled together in, what?, 3 weeks?

  • Members 54 posts
    April 10, 2023, 11:05 p.m.

    Out of curiosity, why the limit to "federal United States of America, the European Union or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"?

    I note that reddit has two sets of user agreements, "Reddit User Agreement if you live in the EEA, United Kingdom, or Switzerland" and if you live outside those jurisdictions. www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement. They include DMCA takedown contact info, while dpreview did not so far as I can tell. They have a lot of rules.

  • Members 14 posts
    April 10, 2023, 11:25 p.m.

    [quote="@Foskito"]

    Agree, but when I hit reply the entire text shows up. Is there a way around that without manually deleting the content one is responding to (as I did here to avoid that)?

  • Members 54 posts
    April 10, 2023, 11:33 p.m.

    The Reply button in a post quotes the post. The Reply buttons at the very top and bottom of the thread (outside any post) do not.

  • April 11, 2023, 7:34 a.m.

    There are many countries in the world, and many of them have laws which I wouldn't want members to have to adhere to - so it can't just say 'don't do anything illegal', so I went for Western liberal democracies. The same applied to US state law, so it's federal law that applies here.

  • April 11, 2023, 7:36 a.m.

    That will be in guidelines for facilitators, which will be next. Shouldn't be in guidelines for users - but guidelines for facilitators will be public.

  • April 11, 2023, 7:39 a.m.

    In the thread, select the text you want to replay to, a little 'quote' flag will appear. Press that and you go into the post editor with just that text quoted. Subsequently you can do the same with other pieces of text (from ant post) and those quotes will be added to your post - very clever.

  • Members 208 posts
    April 11, 2023, 11:34 a.m.

    I think you meant to type any post.
    I'd not normally point out typos like this, but it has given me a chance to try out a great feature I've not seen in other forums :)

  • Members 369 posts
    April 11, 2023, 2:35 p.m.

    Thank you, Bob, for sharing the User Guidelines and inviting feedback. I've added my comments in bold within the quoted text. As always, these are only suggestions. It's the site's text and should reflect a sensibility and tone that you & the owners deem appropriate. Thanks for taking this into consideration.

  • Members 142 posts
    April 11, 2023, 4:01 p.m.

    Bob,
    I really like the direction in which you've moved the text.
    Sherm