• March 12, 2024, 10:56 p.m.

    I have the photo below (full size if you want to play). I know there is rock detail in the black area but how do i get the detail out without lightening the rest of the picture?

    Thanks for any advice

    Alan

    MSCF0494.JPG

    MSCF0494.JPG

    JPG, 15.4 MB, uploaded by AlanSh on March 12, 2024.

  • Members 158 posts
    March 12, 2024, 11:20 p.m.

    Do you have the raw file?
    In PS, just use the Adobe camera raw filter/plugin. It has to be embedded in PS. Select the desired layer (you'll probably have just one), make sure it's not locked, then press Ctrl-Shift-A or "Filter" -> "Camera Raw Filter".
    Then there's a slider to lift the shadows up.

    It can be done on a jpeg too, but with this particular image with almost black shadows, you won't get good results if you only have a jpeg.

  • March 12, 2024, 11:49 p.m.

    Thanks - that worked

    Alan

  • Members 598 posts
    March 13, 2024, 6:17 a.m.

    Here's what I could do with a jpg:

    mscf0494.jpg

    But with a RAW, you can do much better (obviously).

    mscf0494.jpg

    JPG, 14.2 MB, uploaded by GreatBustard on March 13, 2024.

  • March 13, 2024, 7:38 a.m.

    The reason being that JPEG processing sets a black level which is coded to value zero. The raw file might have levels below that, but you can never access them since the JPEG processing has thrown all that data away.
    Also, the shadows in a JPEG have to be really compressed, since it all has to be squeezed into an 8-bit code. When you try to stretch them out again, you're likely to get posterisation.

  • Members 1495 posts
    March 13, 2024, 7:47 a.m.

    With Raw and a good sensor and maybe base ISO you can recover a lot of details form deep shadow, as I found out here.

    DSC_0782 1.jpg

    DSC_0782 12.jpg

    DSC_0782 12.jpg

    JPG, 1.4 MB, uploaded by NCV on March 13, 2024.

    DSC_0782 1.jpg

    JPG, 755.4 KB, uploaded by NCV on March 13, 2024.

  • Members 118 posts
    March 13, 2024, 11:13 a.m.

    From a documentary point of view, the second image is very good. From an artistic and interpretative point of view, the first is more interesting (I'm talking about pareidolia).

  • Members 158 posts
    March 14, 2024, 1:20 a.m.

    I think the shadows additionally suffer from quantisation errors because of gamma compression in jpeg. That is, tonal levels will be less granular in the shadows than in midtones.
    The above recovery attempt from Great Bustard shows all of the above issues: completely lost black areas, posterisation and posterised noise.

  • March 14, 2024, 2:38 a.m.
  • Members 598 posts
    March 14, 2024, 6:53 a.m.
    MSCF0494_DxO.jpg

    JPG, 32.1 MB, uploaded by GreatBustard on March 14, 2024.

  • Members 2290 posts
    March 14, 2024, 7:04 a.m.

    couldnt open the file in photoshop so i used fast stone levels. the image needed a boat in it.

    MSCF0494.jpg

    MSCF0494.jpg

    JPG, 2.6 MB, uploaded by DonaldB on March 14, 2024.

  • March 14, 2024, 7:48 a.m.

    Yes indeed. On the other hand, you don't need a lot of quality in the deepest shadows in the final photo. Adam's zone system defines Zone I as 'Near black, with slight tonality but no texture' and zone II as 'Textured black; the darkest part of the image in which slight detail is recorded'. So long as you stay within Zone I you can get away with a lot. This image calls for a lift way past Zone II, probably up to zone IV. But in the end, processing your file differently from the default JPEG is what raw is all about.
    I tried downloading, but my raw tools on this computer are too old, so I put it through RawDigger, which shows that there's useful data in those clipped blacks
    Screen Shot 2024-03-14 at 07.54.25.png
    Then I exported as a 16 bit TIFF and messed around the the Gimp (I don't use Adobe tools). This is just tweaking the tone curve directly.
    MSCF0494_RAF.jpeg

    MSCF0494_RAF.jpeg

    JPG, 11.6 MB, uploaded by bobn2 on March 14, 2024.

    Screen Shot 2024-03-14 at 07.54.25.png

    PNG, 2.1 MB, uploaded by bobn2 on March 14, 2024.

  • Foundation 1434 posts
    March 14, 2024, 8:06 a.m.

    This quick attempt before breakfast can certainly be refined, but it shows the shot is not irredeemable.

    MSCF0494_c.jpg

    David

    MSCF0494_c.jpg

    JPG, 3.9 MB, uploaded by davidwien on March 14, 2024.

  • March 14, 2024, 8:17 a.m.

    Here you go:
    MSCF0494_RAF_boat.jpeg

    MSCF0494_RAF_boat.jpeg

    JPG, 11.6 MB, uploaded by bobn2 on March 14, 2024.

  • Members 2290 posts
    March 14, 2024, 9:01 a.m.

    good to see you back Bob.

    MSCF0494.jpg

    MSCF0494.jpg

    JPG, 5.6 MB, uploaded by DonaldB on March 14, 2024.

  • Members 300 posts
    March 14, 2024, 9:35 a.m.

    If you did look at the RAW histogram in RawDigger you did see that there's a lot empty at the right end. Alan should have exposed one or one and half stop more and still he did not clip the highlights. Then there was much more details in shadows to lift.

    Now I think you did open shadows a little too much to my taste. I see disturbing posterisation. You also clipped highlights at those foamy waves. But that's me.😎

    OK, my take using RawTherapee an Gimp.
    MSCF0494.jpg

    MSCF0494.jpg

    JPG, 8.2 MB, uploaded by TimoK on March 14, 2024.

  • March 14, 2024, 10:17 a.m.

    Well, there's a limit to how much I'm going to criticise Alan's technique 😀. In fact his is very normal, because the camera's metering system is set up to expose the midtones to the JPEG reference point - never mind where the highlights fall or how much raw headroom there is - and in Fujifilm cameras there's generally quite a bit.

    I agree, it was a quick and dirty effort. Here's one just using RT.
    MSCF0494.jpg
    And this is the tone curve:
    Screenshot from 2024-03-14 10-01-09.png
    Looked good in RT. Now I see it on the site, I don't like it so much. Hmm.

    Screenshot from 2024-03-14 10-01-09.png

    PNG, 20.1 KB, uploaded by bobn2 on March 14, 2024.

    MSCF0494.jpg

    JPG, 2.3 MB, uploaded by bobn2 on March 14, 2024.

  • Members 300 posts
    March 14, 2024, 11:37 a.m.

    I thought it was a good advice for next time shooting. At so contrasty scene as this I recommend exposure bracketing.

    Yes, there's a raw histogram in Therapee and I've seen darker shots in my own ones.😏 But a little more exposure was better.

    Color management problem? Did you set monitor profile in RT's preferences? What is your output color profile in RT?