What's going on with Nikon?

What Xray said.

Quoting "They don't have to. Their web marketing is now king. Look at the climate they've created; you point out their shortcomings and in less than an hour, damage control starts, and you've already been bullied for it. Nikon's shill program is on another level."

Only reason I see to have mods. (in the Nikon section) As soon as someone bullies someone for a criticism of the Zees, bring it to a halt. Because if you don't, this will be DPReview ver 2.

The term "a ML version of the D850" is just that, a term, and not meant to be literal. It just means a camera that is similar to where the D850 fitted in with the DSLR line up and that entailed top spec AF. I mean, we might as well say intead of a ML version of D850, a Nikon version of the Sony A7rV or Canon R6 or whatever but with the class leading specs that the D850 had over the competition in the DSLR world. This is what people are asking for, essentially a Z9 in a smaller, lighter body. Again, the idea of a "ML D850" (again just an easy term) is simply what people are wanting and Nikon not delivering yet. I still think that a camera that does "a bit less" than the Z9 and has no battery grip extension is definitely a sales winner (or at least a stop leaking sales to Canon/Sony) and can then compete with those Canon and Sony equivalents - which is important as we see so many people saying that they would love a Z9 but they can get that in a Canon or Sony with a smaller, lighter body - this is the critical factor that keeps coming up. The Z9 is fantastic and does all I want it to do, but a ML version that was smaller and would be perfect for travel as travel requires low weight due to air travel restrictions and for many others it is simply that they want a smaller, lighter camera and that should not be dismissed. They have the sensor, they have the processor, and if it can be accomplished they need to do is put that in a smaller lighter body.

Not sure what you mean by "last place." It's easy to come up with criteria that would put any camera/lens maker in "last place."

A1, R5, Z7ii. Pick one. Which camera is in last place?

A1 is last by a lot, with the Z7ii leading the pack, using the very useful "megapickles per buck" metric. For landscape or macro work the competition doesn't offer anything to make up for the higher cost, apart from possibly multi shot high res on sony (canon has it, but not a useful implementation).

The A1 is more expensive than the Z9 and the R5 is $1200 more than the Z7ii so the Z7ii is way out in front in terms of bang for the buck. The BS is deep in this thread! I think I need hip boots!

I have all three. By the frequency of usage:
1) Z 7 II
2) A1
3) R5

there are users that will pay less for lesser / smaller Z9 ... it seems big Z9 sales to people who will pay for Z9 are done and it is time to pick people who will pay less ... plus same sensor in more cameras is cheaper than venture into a new 60+mp sensor

I think that the 45mp sensor is now the new fast sensor. So Z8 replaces both Z6 and Z7.

Higher res body is yet to come.

I had ALL the Nikons and every other brand in front of me last November and ordered the Z7ii. I could have had the Z9 or any other 24x36 camera but the Z7ii was the right price and size. I had enough left to buy 15KW of strobes with all the stands and modifiers. What makes a bigger difference, the camera or the lighting?

My 13 strobes total just under 6KW. And I thought I went overboard.

I swore I was done at 11KW, a single 4KW 120VAC down to 200WS battery powered. Then 2, 2400WS power packs came up for sale that were radio compatible, 3 stop dial down, at a price I couldn't turn down. I leave several set up permanently and still have plenty of kit for location.

I agree. I initially took the original post to be a wind-up, Despite that all the responses were emphatic but totally civilised, yet the responders are being accused of "bullying." It all sounds like a certain moribund gear site that comes to mind . . .

It seems fair to say Nikon is in the lead with mirrorless telephoto lens designs overall, with Canon in second place and Sony trailing.

It seems fair to say Nikon by opening up the lens protocol has made available a wider range of lenses below top performing exotics than Canon.

The 10th May event should clarify the Nikon Z8 specification - with the possibility of Nikon nosing ahead of Canon and Sony equivalence.

Even so with any system what happens behind the viewfinder is usually significantly more important than the equipment being used.

Z9, R8, A7S. Pick one. Which camera is in last place?

It would help if you correctly categorized cameras. As I've written, A1, R3, Z9 is a tight race, and there is no "wrong" choice. Having used them all, I prefer the Z9 except for one thing (which has now been solved by a third party).

Beyond that top level, it gets more difficult to categorize cameras, though I suspect the R5 and Z8 will end up being easily compared, and I don't think that comparison will end with the R5 "winning".

Unless you decide to buy new top-end cameras every year, you're going to find whatever you buy isn't always at the top of the heap.

but the mere point that 3 years old camera with FSI , non stacked , 90mp readout sensor will be compared with Z8 says volumes about Canon ( positively ) - "winning" or not

:-)

What was that and how is it solved?