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How to get the best raw exposure, part 2

JimKasson
May 9, 2023
chat_bubble_outline 810
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    TechTalk
    Members 221 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:42 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:42 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @TechTalk has written:

    It takes at least two to have a "back and forth".

    We have had two main back and forth-ers in this thread, and in the exposure threads that preceded it.

    But there's the question of what is the proper response to statements that are objectively wrong. Should they be ignored, trusting the unsophisticated thread reader to understand that they're wrong? Or should they be countered?

    You left out the part that said...

    @TechTalk has written:

    In the real world; some can do it endlessly, some will tire of it eventually, and some will eventually give up if ignored long enough. It probably works similarly in the virtual world.

    Take your pick. You can argue endlessly, which will usually involve a lot of repetition of the same basic points framed differently; give up after you've made your points and allow the topic of contention (or sometimes competition) to wither away; or ignore it and move on with life. Some may find more creative alternatives to those basic options outlined.

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:44 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:44 p.m.
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    @bobn2 has written:

    a preposition is something that you should never end a sentence with.

    "This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put." -- Winston Churchill😁

    AlanSh, IanSForsyth, Robert1955 and 1 other user like this.

    favorite 4

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    DonaldB
    Members 2442 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:46 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:46 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    whats annoying is everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing, im not here to do all the running around, if anyone wants to prove my findings incorrect then be my guest DO YOUR OWN TESTING is that so hard or life threatening ?

    I've documented the results of my testing extensively over the years in more than 2500 blog posts.

    not you Jim just the other members that constantly mock my findings.

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    NoImage
    Members 240 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:46 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:46 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @bobn2 has written:

    a preposition is something that you should never end a sentence with.

    "This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put." -- Winston Churchill

    “Keep Buggering on” - - Winston Churchill

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:47 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:47 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing

    I wonder why you keep saying that being fully aware it isn't true.

    BTW, have you read www.fastrawviewer.com/white-balance-as-per-channel-exposure-correction ?

    IanSForsyth and JimKasson like this.

    favorite 2

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    DonaldB
    Members 2442 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:51 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:51 p.m.
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    @bobn2 has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    if anyone wants to prove my findings incorrect then be my guest DO YOUR OWN TESTING is that so hard or life threatening ?

    I you follow Jim's site you'll find he does loads of his own tests with much more rigour and a level of experimental design that you likely couldn't conceive of.
    (BTW, your daughter will probably tell you that a preposition is something that you should never end a sentence with. Sorry about that).

    Im not ashamed about my poor English writing skills 😎 but jim has also stated he hasnt played with any of the latest sony cameras . not that i really matters because my a6300 shows the same histogram accuracy as my a74.

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    DonaldB
    Members 2442 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:53 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:53 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    whats annoying is everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing, im not here to do all the running around, if anyone wants to prove my findings incorrect then be my guest DO YOUR OWN TESTING is that so hard or life threatening ?

    I've documented the results of my testing extensively over the years in more than 2500 blog posts.

    post a link please specifically relating to histogram accuracy.

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    bobn2
    Team 2240 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:54 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:54 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    post a link please

    I think this is one of the few cases where 'don't you know how to use Google?' is apposite.

    IanSForsyth and Deleted like this.

    favorite 2

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    DonaldB
    Members 2442 posts
    May 13, 2023, 8:58 p.m. May 13, 2023, 8:58 p.m.
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    @bobn2 has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    post a link please

    I think this is one of the few cases where 'don't you know how to use Google?' is apposite.

    no one has a detailed article showing actual on camera images of histograms and direct software histograms or even colour picker samples from photoshop clearly showing the almost whites at 253 to 255 from 16 bit files.i have posted numerous with highly accurate comparisons.

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    DonaldB
    Members 2442 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing

    I wonder why you keep saying that being fully aware it isn't true.

    BTW, have you read www.fastrawviewer.com/white-balance-as-per-channel-exposure-correction ?

    already read that.
    frv quote.
    One might say that inaccurate white balance is no longer a problem since Auto white balance is quite accurate now. However, in RAW data there is no way to differentiate between the colors present in the scene and the color of the light hitting it. Because of that, if an object in the scene has some saturated colour, usually a shade of red or blue, applying white balance may result in a false overexposure warning.

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    bobn2
    Team 2240 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @bobn2 has written:

    I think this is one of the few cases where 'don't you know how to use Google?' is apposite.

    no one has a detailed article showing actual on camera images of histograms and direct software histograms or even colour picker samples from photoshop clearly showing the almost whites at 253 to 255 from 16 bit files.i have posted numerous with highly accurate comparisons.

    Have you ever heard of Russell's Teapot?

    Robert1955 and JimStirling like this.

    favorite 2

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9:02 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9:02 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing

    I wonder why you keep saying that being fully aware it isn't true.

    BTW, have you read www.fastrawviewer.com/white-balance-as-per-channel-exposure-correction ?

    already read that.

    How about this? www.fastrawviewer.com/blog/in-camera-histogram-doesn%27t-represent-exposure

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9:13 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9:13 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    whats annoying is everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing, im not here to do all the running around, if anyone wants to prove my findings incorrect then be my guest DO YOUR OWN TESTING is that so hard or life threatening ?

    I've documented the results of my testing extensively over the years in more than 2500 blog posts.

    post a link please specifically relating to histogram accuracy.

    Look in the second Lenrentals raw exposure post, if you haven’t already.

    IanSForsyth likes this.

    favorite 1

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    SrMi
    Members 457 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9:15 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9:15 p.m.
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    @BurnImage has written:

    If my zebras give me an indication that it’s safe to apply 1 stop of plus EV then I will, especially in ultra low light. That can literally mean reducing my auto ISO from 12,800 to 6400.

    I am not following. In M with Auto-ISO mode, applying positive EC will increase ISO, not decrease it.

    @BurnImage has written:

    For my particular camera, according to photons to photos, that reduction from ISO 12800 to 6400 gives me 1.4 extra stops of DR to play with in post if needed.

    Your DR will not increase when lowering ISO if your exposure is constant.

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    DonaldB
    Members 2442 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9:16 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9:16 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing

    I wonder why you keep saying that being fully aware it isn't true.

    BTW, have you read www.fastrawviewer.com/white-balance-as-per-channel-exposure-correction ?

    already read that.

    How about this? www.fastrawviewer.com/blog/in-camera-histogram-doesn%27t-represent-exposure

    Just read that , your findings 1/2 stop accuracy and yet you quote "if you are shooting RAW, it is worse - the histogram misleads when it comes to exposure of the highlights and shadows." misleading is not a word that describes your findings.
    i have got the accuracy down to 1/10 of a stop. and depending what side of the in cameras 1/3 stop accuracy setting is totally irrelevant.
    now where the zebras blow any histogram away for consistent accuracy is the ability to set them (70) lets say skin tones. to exactly the users required brightness level.

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9:16 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9:16 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    your findings 1/2 stop accuracy

    No.

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9:17 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9:17 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    i have got the accuracy down to 1/10 of a stop

    No.

    JohnVickers likes this.

    favorite 1

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2442 posts
    May 13, 2023, 9:19 p.m. May 13, 2023, 9:19 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @JimKasson has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    whats annoying is everyone is to lazy and gutless to there own testing, im not here to do all the running around, if anyone wants to prove my findings incorrect then be my guest DO YOUR OWN TESTING is that so hard or life threatening ?

    I've documented the results of my testing extensively over the years in more than 2500 blog posts.

    post a link please specifically relating to histogram accuracy.

    Look in the second Lenrentals raw exposure post, if you haven’t already.

    edit, there is no camera histogram images.

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