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How to get the best raw exposure, part 2

JimKasson
May 9, 2023
chat_bubble_outline 810
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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 10:56 p.m. May 10, 2023, 10:56 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    the faststone histogram looks good

    Do you know what's on that histogram? How does it change if the subject is blue? red?

    IanSForsyth, JohnVickers and Deleted like this.

    favorite 3

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    Jim says my greens are clipped but my camera says the reds are clipping so if i shift my WB fine colour adjustment to the green the histogram should be more accurate ?

    I did not say your greens are clipped. Please stop misquoting me.

    A7M01251-Full-7028x4688.png

    Yes, if your in-camera WB is set fairly green you'll have an in-camera histogram that better approximates the raw histogram. This is called UniWB, and Iliah was the first to publicize it, and maybe the first to do it, almost 20 years ago.

    A7M01251-Full-7028x4688.png

    PNG, 99.1 KB, uploaded by JimKasson on May 10, 2023.

    Athena and IanSForsyth like this.

    favorite 2

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    Deleted Removed user
    May 10, 2023, 11:02 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:02 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:

    And here's what RawTherapee thinks, FWIW ...

    pixies.jpg

    Those zebras need to be let out of the corral so they stop misleading people ...

    did you try the next file i posted

    No.

    doesnt get any closer than this in the field ,we only have max precision of 1/3 stop.

    1251 ps.jpg

    The image now under discussion:

    pixies II.jpg

    However, looking at the vignetting, I'd sell the camera or lens or both ... yes, Straw Man, I know!

    pixies II.jpg

    JPG, 344.2 KB, uploaded by xpatUSA on May 10, 2023.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:06 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:06 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:

    I did not say your greens are clipped. Please stop misquoting me.

    Stop being pedantic ,you know exactly what i meant.

  • link
    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:09 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:09 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    the faststone histogram looks good

    Do you know what's on that histogram? How does it change if the subject is blue? red?

    I just tested it and it works perfectly. it shifted the RGB histogram to match the Fast Raw Viewer. but FRV is not displaying camera WB setting 🤨

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:09 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:09 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @JimKasson has written:

    I did not say your greens are clipped. Please stop misquoting me.

    Stop being pedantic ,you know exactly what i meant.

    No, I don't. I said your raw greens were fine. What is your point?

    Mackiesback, DavidMillier, IanSForsyth and 1 other user like this.

    favorite 4

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    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:15 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:15 p.m.
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    @xpatUSA has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:

    And here's what RawTherapee thinks, FWIW ...

    pixies.jpg

    Those zebras need to be let out of the corral so they stop misleading people ...

    did you try the next file i posted

    No.

    doesnt get any closer than this in the field ,we only have max precision of 1/3 stop.

    1251 ps.jpg

    The image now under discussion:

    pixies II.jpg

    However, looking at the vignetting, I'd sell the camera or lens or both ... yes, Straw Man, I know!

    LOL what modern lens doesn't . i never see it as my cameras are always set for distortion and vignette correction.

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    Deleted Removed user
    May 10, 2023, 11:16 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:16 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    WB is applied before showing zebras and histograms.

    cool so that means i can accurately set my auto wb against the RGB histogram ?

    What???

    It's called a rhetorical question and, in this case, a non-sequitur ... both often used by someone whose back is to the wall ...

    JohnVickers likes this.

    favorite 1

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    DonaldB
    Members 2420 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:19 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:19 p.m.
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    @xpatUSA has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    WB is applied before showing zebras and histograms.

    cool so that means i can accurately set my auto wb against the RGB histogram ?

    What???

    It's called a rhetorical question and, in this case, a non-sequitur ... both often used by someone whose back is to the wall ...

    Dont understand your post and who it was referring to.

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    Deleted Removed user
    May 10, 2023, 11:26 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:26 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    the faststone histogram looks good

    Do you know what's on that histogram? How does it change if the subject is blue? red?

    Donald probably doesn't know.

    In fact, his posts in this thread make one wonder if he even knows what a histogram is!

    Sorry, Donald.

    JohnVickers likes this.

    favorite 1

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:27 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:27 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:

    FRV is not displaying camera WB setting

    It does.

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    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:31 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:31 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:

    Iliah was the first to publicize it

    As a matter of fact, it was my daughter Julia, after more than half a year of field testing, and with my permission.

    IanSForsyth, JohnMoyer, SrMi and 1 other user like this.

    favorite 4

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:32 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:32 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:
    @JimKasson has written:

    Iliah was the first to publicize it

    As a matter of fact, it was my daughter Julia, after more than half a year of field testing, and with my permission.

    Thanks, Iliah.

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:33 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:33 p.m.
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    @JimKasson has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @JimKasson has written:

    Iliah was the first to publicize it

    As a matter of fact, it was my daughter Julia, after more than half a year of field testing, and with my permission.

    Thanks, Iliah.

    As if I can resist here :)

  • link
    IliahBorg
    Members 976 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:36 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:36 p.m.
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    @xpatUSA has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    the faststone histogram looks good

    Do you know what's on that histogram? How does it change if the subject is blue? red?

    Donald probably doesn't know.

    In fact, his posts in this thread make one wonder if he even knows what a histogram is!

    Sorry, Donald.

    My problem is that in-camera histograms don't help a raw shooter.
    I'm not sure a photographer needs to know what a histogram is to get a happy exposure ;)

    DonCox and JohnVickers like this.

    favorite 2

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    JimKasson
    Members 1738 posts
    May 10, 2023, 11:43 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:43 p.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:

    My problem is that in-camera histograms don't help a raw shooter.

    They're certainly not ideal in the present situation, but I still think they are helpful once you understand their limitations.

    Athena and SrMi like this.

    favorite 2

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    Deleted Removed user
    May 10, 2023, 11:58 p.m. May 10, 2023, 11:58 p.m.
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    @DonaldB has written:
    @xpatUSA has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:
    @IliahBorg has written:
    @DonaldB has written:

    WB applied in camera before raw ?

    WB is applied before showing zebras and histograms.

    cool so that means i can accurately set my auto wb against the RGB histogram ?

    What???

    It's called a rhetorical question and, in this case, a non-sequitur ... both often used by someone whose back is to the wall ...

    Dont understand your post and who it was referring to.

    Come ON, Donald !!

    You said "cool so that means i can accurately set my auto wb against the RGB histogram ?"

    Iliah said "What???" and I responded to explain my view of your wacky statement.

    Must be hard ... (wink)

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    SrMi
    Members 457 posts
    May 11, 2023, 12:05 a.m. May 11, 2023, 12:05 a.m.
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    @IliahBorg has written:

    My problem is that in-camera histograms don't help a raw shooter.
    <snip>

    While in-camera histograms do not match the raw data, they can help prevent blown highlights in most cases. What they cannot help is pushing the exposure to its optimum. Being a stop conservative with exposure at base ISO is often good enough, though it would be nice if we could eke the last photon out of the scene.

    When higher ISOs are needed to maintain brightness, the noise visibility increases and the optimal exposure is more critical. In that case, we need the histogram to prevent highlight clipping by reducing ISO while keeping exposure as large as possible.

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