Sure. If we're not talking about matrix metering and such.
Sure. If we're not talking about matrix metering and such.
@DannoLeftForums has written: @SrMi has written: @DannoLeftForums has written:which made no sense to me because I cannot see how you can underexpose while keeping the exposure unchanged.
Because your definition of "underexpose" is different from the most common one (making image darker).
In a beginners environment imo it is even more important to use the correct terms to describe things. Using different meanings for a word depending on the context can only lead to confusion and misconceptions for beginners.
Maybe we should avoid using the term under- or overexposure and instead use darkening/brightening.
Yes, Yes, Yes đ¤đ¤đ¤đ¤đ¤đ¤đ¤đ¤đ
That is exactly what I advise people to do and what I actually do in my posts. I say an image is too dark or too light or it needs to be darkened or lightened etc etc.
If I ever use "under exposed" in any of my posts it is as per the definition in my signature and is why I include the signature for the sake of clarity in my posts.
* exposure - amount of light that struck the sensor per unit area while the shutter was open
** optimal exposure - the maximum exposure* within dof and motion blur requirements without clipping important highlights.
*** under exposed - more exposure* could have been added with the DOF and blur constraints still being met without clipping important highlights.
@DonaldB has written:you need to rework those tests
Jim is correct.
not unless i see images of the rear LCD screens and raw histogram im not convinced.
@DannoLeftForums has written:As a "Plan B" would you be comfortable with "....contemporary camera meters are calibrated to output a firmware set image lightness...."?
Sure. If we're not talking about matrix metering and such.
Ok, thank you for that đ but in the overwhelming majority of the photos I take I use matrix/evaluative metering and it works well for me. Why doesn't it apply to matrix/evaluative metering?
not unless i see images of the rear LCD screens and raw histogram im not convinced.
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histogram-example-normal-contrast-scene/
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histograms-low-contrast-scene-with-specular-highlight/
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histograms-high-contrast-scene/
@DonaldB has written:not unless i see images of the rear LCD screens and raw histogram im not convinced.
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histogram-example-normal-contrast-scene/
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histograms-low-contrast-scene-with-specular-highlight/
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histograms-high-contrast-scene/
not a sony camera, as you quoted.
@DannoLeftForums has written:So in the future if I posted something like "....contemporary camera meters are calibrated to output ~12.5% grey image lightness....", would you be comfortable with that?
Sounds more cut and dried than it is. Maybe Iliah could give you a range.
OM-1 is calibrated to less than 7%, that's slightly less than 4 stops down from clipping.
Maybe we should avoid using the term under- or overexposure and instead use darkening/brightening.
I have proposed that over and underexposure be qualified. For example, underexposed one stop from the exposure that results from metering a gray card.
not a sony camera, as you quoted.
I've sold all my Sony cameras.
@JimKasson has written: @DonaldB has written:not unless i see images of the rear LCD screens and raw histogram im not convinced.
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histogram-example-normal-contrast-scene/
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histograms-low-contrast-scene-with-specular-highlight/
blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/histograms-high-contrast-scene/
not a sony camera, as you quoted.
You've seen that Adobe are adding 0.35 EV lightness to raw files from your camera to compensate. You've seen that if a scene contains a significant patch of saturated colour (red, for example) the histogram shows clipping where there is none.
@IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written:you need to rework those tests
Jim is correct.
not unless i see images of the rear LCD screens and raw histogram im not convinced.
That you can do, see those screens and raw histograms. Actually, you did, but you are not paying attention.
@JimKasson has written: @DannoLeftForums has written:So in the future if I posted something like "....contemporary camera meters are calibrated to output ~12.5% grey image lightness....", would you be comfortable with that?
Sounds more cut and dried than it is. Maybe Iliah could give you a range.
OM-1 is calibrated to less than 7%, that's slightly less than 4 stops down from clipping.
ok, thank you đ I didn't realise there was such a large range in the calibration of camera meters.
At this stage I think I'll go with:
"....contemporary camera meters are calibrated to output a firmware set image lightness...."
Would you be comfortable with that if you saw it in my posts?
@DonaldB has written: @IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written:olympus xz1
That's one of the very few cameras that are calibrated in raw close to the standard.
Funny that you should say that. because the exposure settings on that camera were always different than any other camera i owned. now i will compare it to my a74.
just did the test and the A74 and XZ1 histograms maxed out showed the identical exposure. thats awesome. the olympus playback RGB histogram is unbelevabley detailed.
1/15 f/3.2 vs. 1/15 f/3.2+1. What's that +1?
@JimKasson has written: @DonaldB has written:where is everyone getting the idea that incamera histograms are not acurate ?
In my case, from testing. Here are a few of the cameras I've tested: Sony a7, a7II, a7III, a7R, a7RII, a7RIII, a7RIV, a7S, a7SII, a9, a9II. Nikon D3, D4, D5, D800, D810, D850, Z6, Z7, Z9. Fuji GFX 50S, GFX 50R, GFX 100, GFX 100S.
seriously Jim, i think you need to rework those tests.
1/20 on FastRawViewer screenshot, 1/25 on the LCD. Interesting.
"....contemporary camera meters are calibrated to output a firmware set image lightness...."
I think the notion that the calibration of the meters is guided by what the manufacturer wants it to be (and depends on what results in what they think is acceptable image quality) can be made more clear. Same camera may have different calibration for different ISO settings. It's all about what the manufacturer thinks is good enough output.
@DonaldB has written: @JimKasson has written: @DonaldB has written:where is everyone getting the idea that incamera histograms are not acurate ?
In my case, from testing. Here are a few of the cameras I've tested: Sony a7, a7II, a7III, a7R, a7RII, a7RIII, a7RIV, a7S, a7SII, a9, a9II. Nikon D3, D4, D5, D800, D810, D850, Z6, Z7, Z9. Fuji GFX 50S, GFX 50R, GFX 100, GFX 100S.
seriously Jim, i think you need to rework those tests.
1/20 on FastRawViewer screenshot, 1/25 on the LCD. Interesting.
good catch. have no idea will have to look into that.
@DonaldB has written: @DonaldB has written: @IliahBorg has written: @DonaldB has written:olympus xz1
That's one of the very few cameras that are calibrated in raw close to the standard.
Funny that you should say that. because the exposure settings on that camera were always different than any other camera i owned. now i will compare it to my a74.
just did the test and the A74 and XZ1 histograms maxed out showed the identical exposure. thats awesome. the olympus playback RGB histogram is unbelevabley detailed.
1/15 f/3.2 vs. 1/15 f/3.2+1. What's that +1?
will check it out.
checked it out thats just the over exposure amount form the cameras normal exposure, its not a correction.